Another new project
- Patricks Dad
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- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:11 pm
- Location: Warrenville, Illinois
Another new project
Here's a couple pics of my next project. Just needs some sanding and a few coats of varnish. Interesting construction technique. I won't be able to work on it for a few weeks due to a back injury last weekend...
Re: Another new project
Just plain cool !
I've never seen this building technic !
Tell us more!
Jim
I've never seen this building technic !
Tell us more!
Jim
Keep your paddle wet and your seat dry!
- Patricks Dad
- Posts: 1476
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:11 pm
- Location: Warrenville, Illinois
Re: Another new project
There is a canoe similar to this (without any glass) in the Canadian Canoe Museum in Peterborough. That canoe was the influence for a kayak built by MTpockets (builder extraordinaire on this very forum).
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Re: Another new project
This construction technique was also used in a very early historical canoe displayed in the Wisconsin Canoe Heritage Museum in Spooner, WI.
The canoe was called the Herald Patent Canoe or more simply the Double-Cedar Canoe and was built by Dan Herald and patented in 1871. Lateral cedar ribs were bent over a form that had metal bands on it to clench over the 7,000 copper canoe tacks used in this labor-intensive canoe. Unlike the later Cedar/Canvas canoes developed in the US at Old Town, Maine that had bent ribs spaced 2-3" apart, the earlier Double-Cedar canoe had no space between lateral ribs. That meant that each rib had to be precisely trimmed and rabbeted to fit into the adjacent ribs. Once that inner layer was complete, a second layer of longitudinal cedar planking was attached with tapered copper tacks that went through the two layers and clenched back on themselves when they hit the metal bands on the mould. To provide absolute waterproofing, a layer of canvas duck set in lead-based paint went between the cedar layers.
The craftsmen in Herald's canoe shop apparently hated building the Double-Cedar canoe because of the 7,000 tacks that had to be hammered in before the paint set. It was, however, the first canoe with a smooth interior, unlike the rough surface of dugouts or the cedar ribs of the native birchbark canoes.
The innovation of metal bands on the mould beneath each rib to turn back and clench the copper tacks holding the layers together was lost on early Canadian canoe builders but found its way to Maine to the canoe shops of Old Town, EM White, BN Morris and others. It's still used today in building Cedar Canvas canoes, as demonstrated at the canoe shop of the canoe museum in Wisconsin. http://www.wisconsincanoeheritagemuseum.org/canoe-shop
The canoe was called the Herald Patent Canoe or more simply the Double-Cedar Canoe and was built by Dan Herald and patented in 1871. Lateral cedar ribs were bent over a form that had metal bands on it to clench over the 7,000 copper canoe tacks used in this labor-intensive canoe. Unlike the later Cedar/Canvas canoes developed in the US at Old Town, Maine that had bent ribs spaced 2-3" apart, the earlier Double-Cedar canoe had no space between lateral ribs. That meant that each rib had to be precisely trimmed and rabbeted to fit into the adjacent ribs. Once that inner layer was complete, a second layer of longitudinal cedar planking was attached with tapered copper tacks that went through the two layers and clenched back on themselves when they hit the metal bands on the mould. To provide absolute waterproofing, a layer of canvas duck set in lead-based paint went between the cedar layers.
The craftsmen in Herald's canoe shop apparently hated building the Double-Cedar canoe because of the 7,000 tacks that had to be hammered in before the paint set. It was, however, the first canoe with a smooth interior, unlike the rough surface of dugouts or the cedar ribs of the native birchbark canoes.
The innovation of metal bands on the mould beneath each rib to turn back and clench the copper tacks holding the layers together was lost on early Canadian canoe builders but found its way to Maine to the canoe shops of Old Town, EM White, BN Morris and others. It's still used today in building Cedar Canvas canoes, as demonstrated at the canoe shop of the canoe museum in Wisconsin. http://www.wisconsincanoeheritagemuseum.org/canoe-shop
When people figure out what's important in Life, there's gonna be a big shortage of canoes.
- Patricks Dad
- Posts: 1476
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:11 pm
- Location: Warrenville, Illinois
Re: Another new project
It's my understanding that the "Double Cedar" canoe had a 2nd layer of cedar over the first layer (unlike this canoe). The canoe that better matches the construction technique of this canoe is the Cedar Rib canoe invented by John Stephenson sometime after (I think) the Double Cedar canoe (Canadian patent 10,063, dated May 1879). The Cedar Rib canoe of course didn't have the benefit of a layer of fiberglass inside and out as this one does....
- Patricks Dad
- Posts: 1476
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:11 pm
- Location: Warrenville, Illinois
Re: Another new project
Sanded down and a first coat of varnish on. A few more coats to go....
Re: Another new project
Just plain nice to look at ... also i am jealous, far too cold for me to try and work in the shop.
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- Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:51 pm
Re: Another new project
Randy,
Had a look at some of the pictures you have posted. Thanks for the views. I was wondering how you wove the seats you have on all of your canoes. It does not look like it a weave but rather just straight strands of leather somehow secured at each end. Could you describe how the leather is secured?
Thanks
hugh
Had a look at some of the pictures you have posted. Thanks for the views. I was wondering how you wove the seats you have on all of your canoes. It does not look like it a weave but rather just straight strands of leather somehow secured at each end. Could you describe how the leather is secured?
Thanks
hugh
- Patricks Dad
- Posts: 1476
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:11 pm
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Re: Another new project
Hugh,
I'm not exactly sure which picture you were looking at but I do have one canoe with leather woven seats:
here's an up close pic:
These seats are woven using a pattern I found on the internet somewhere.
I think this might be it:
https://canoeguybc.wordpress.com/2013/0 ... anoe-seat/
It is a single piece of (wet) hide tied at one end and laced on the frame. It has a few coats of varnish on top of that (after it dried of course)
I'm not exactly sure which picture you were looking at but I do have one canoe with leather woven seats:
here's an up close pic:
These seats are woven using a pattern I found on the internet somewhere.
I think this might be it:
https://canoeguybc.wordpress.com/2013/0 ... anoe-seat/
It is a single piece of (wet) hide tied at one end and laced on the frame. It has a few coats of varnish on top of that (after it dried of course)
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- Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:51 pm
Re: Another new project
My mistake. Somehow I connected to a photo gallery from one of your posts and thought they were your pictures. Nice seat. I did make one like that on my first canoe 35 years ago. Still have that canoe, but it is a bit beat up now. It was a 19 foot MicMac and weighs a ton. Built it in 3 months while I was in high school. I didn't put a lot of thought into it at the time so it got heavier and heavier.
Right now I am intent upon building two single paddle canoes where my overall design goal is light. I have built a small seat to go into the Rob Roy and thought to cane the seat. I noticed the attached seat on the photo gallery which looked very simple to string, but can't see how the webbing is attached since it is not weaved. Photo turns out to be from Jim Dodd's gallery. It might be weaved, I just can't see any loops.
Right now I am intent upon building two single paddle canoes where my overall design goal is light. I have built a small seat to go into the Rob Roy and thought to cane the seat. I noticed the attached seat on the photo gallery which looked very simple to string, but can't see how the webbing is attached since it is not weaved. Photo turns out to be from Jim Dodd's gallery. It might be weaved, I just can't see any loops.
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Re: Another new project
Hi Hugh
Yes that is my seat.
It is a simple seat to lace up. I use 1/2" snowshoe nylon cord. It's virtually indestructible !
If you do a Google search, you should be able to find the nylon on line.
If you use the nylon cord, it tends to tighten up when you varnish. So leave it a little loose.
As far as lacing. I use two pieces of cord. I start from the underside, at one corner, go up, over to the opposite side, down the hole, and under to the next hole right next to it, up and back across. Continue until you are done. I usually do the long side first, but I doubt it makes a difference.
I drill 3/16" holes an inch apart. I believe that gives me the best ratio.
Here's a couple of pics, that should help.
Jim
Yes that is my seat.
It is a simple seat to lace up. I use 1/2" snowshoe nylon cord. It's virtually indestructible !
If you do a Google search, you should be able to find the nylon on line.
If you use the nylon cord, it tends to tighten up when you varnish. So leave it a little loose.
As far as lacing. I use two pieces of cord. I start from the underside, at one corner, go up, over to the opposite side, down the hole, and under to the next hole right next to it, up and back across. Continue until you are done. I usually do the long side first, but I doubt it makes a difference.
I drill 3/16" holes an inch apart. I believe that gives me the best ratio.
Here's a couple of pics, that should help.
Jim
Keep your paddle wet and your seat dry!
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- Posts: 37
- Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:51 pm
Re: Another new project
Many thanks. I order some.
Hugh
Hugh