First build; Ranger 15!

[Maddog]

Hi everyone. I'm working on my first cedar strip canoe. I just finished the first coat of fiberglass epoxy. All said and done I am happy with how the first coat turned out; everything looks to be pretty good for my first time around! I wasn't able to lay on subsequent coats in order to do a chemical bond between coats, so I am at the sanding stage in order to get a mechanical bond between coats 1 and 2. I will definitely opt for the chemical bond between coats 2, 3, etc. I am using 6oz cloth.

So my question is: How far do I sand the first coat of epoxy before I can apply the second coat. I know I do not want to sand into the cloth fibers. My concern is if I sand enough to get to the "lows" of the cloth, will that be too far causing me to cut into the "highs"? I have sanded a section already, and notice the lows are still glossy, but am worried that in order to get to the lows it will end up sanding into the cloth at the highs. Neither of my books address this spacifically. I will add a link to a picture of the already sanded area.

Thanks in advance.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/mRi6p2Boi7LNFmby6

[Patricks Dad]

Looking at your picture, I think I'd stop there and go with the next coats.

[Maddog]

Looking at your picture, I think I'd stop there and go with the next coats.

Excellent! Thank you for the advice!

[Cruiser]

Concur with Randy ... as a side note, if you build again, I would avoid splitting the application schedule if at all possible .... even if that means waiting till you have the time or helpers. Sanding epoxy is a pita, doing an extra sanding is a double pita.

Maybe post a few pics here, we always like to follow along


Brian

[Maddog]

Concur with Randy ... as a side note, if you build again, I would avoid splitting the application schedule if at all possible .... even if that means waiting till you have the time or helpers. Sanding epoxy is a pita, doing an extra sanding is a double pita.

Maybe post a few pics here, we always like to follow along


Brian

Thanks for the advice! I will definitely make sure to plan for a chemical bond in the rest of this build, along with future builds.
Finding a helper now has been tough due to everyone isolating haha so I had to recruit my wife when she got done working in the evening. Also, with it being my first build I wanted to take my time and focus on the application, and assess the layup without being distracted by keeping track of the timing for the following coats. Now that I am comfortable with it, and had a successful layup, I will absolutely take the steps in order to eliminate unnecessary sanding!

[Maddog]

Some photos of my build so far. Bear Mountain Boat plans of a Prospector Ranger 15.

tracing the stations

cutting the stations on the band saw

sanding to the line on a disc sander on the table saw

Table saw setup. I extended the fence so i could get better straight cuts.

Router setup

Setting up the molds on the strongback

Stripping the hull. Decided to go stemless; I like how it looks, and it eliminated having to make stems!



Here it is sanded smooth, staples removed and holes filled, and seal coat of epoxy rolled on (a step i will omit on any future builds)

First fiberglass epoxy coat applied



https://photos.app.goo.gl/MeRUDy8KhBLumCwv7

[Patricks Dad]

none of your pics are visible.

[Maddog]

none of your pics are visible.

dam* technical problems. Ended up just providing an album link..

[Patricks Dad]

If you grab the address of the individual picture e.g., https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/L6Q57 ... 82-h661-no

and put it between ] and [ in the string you get when you click the 9th button at the top of the window (looks like a picture of a mountain with a sun in the upper left corner) it should work...

example:

[Maddog]

If you grab the address of the individual picture etc.

Tried that originally. i think the problem was the pictures weren't in a shared album. Should be good now.

[Simon]

Really like the stemless approach. What are the implications re strength and glassing. Is there extra glass on the ends ? If you could post a close up picture or two of the finished curves that would be appreciated especially where the change between butt joining the centre and the 'half lapping'. Thankyou in advance.

[Cruiser]

I know Jim only builds this way and he will also likely chime in.

I don't believe there are "strength" considerations that require extra glassing ... but in general I like to put a couple of layers of glass over the stems to add abrasion resistance to the ends (and yes it also adds strength).

I haven't had the time to post it here yet, but I just finished a post on glassing the stems here: http://www.canoetripping.net/forums/for ... uild/page8

This may be what you are asking, not sure, hope it helps.


Brian

[Maddog]

Really like the stemless approach. What are the implications re strength and glassing. Is there extra glass on the ends ? If you could post a close up picture or two of the finished curves that would be appreciated especially where the change between butt joining the centre and the 'half lapping'. Thankyou in advance.

This is my first build so if my info is wrong I'm sure a more experienced builder will correct me. With that said, from what I have read from numerous sources and publications there is no reduction in strength or waterproofness without hardwood stems. Cruiser posted a great link on glassing the stems (thanks for that!). The key is cutting it on the bias as that allows for a lot of stretch and eliminates a whole lot of bunching of the cloth. I will apply 2 layers of glass along the areas of the stems that are likely to take the most impacts. Then the inside of the stem will get a fillet of thickened epoxy. Here are some links I've gathered on the topic too.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4347 props to Jim for that one.
Video: https://youtu.be/EOV7VtH5gZs

I alternated each side, and filed a rounded groove into the underlaying strips cove to "interlock" each strip at the stems (a chainsaw sharpening file worked perfect for this!). Then glued the butt of the short strip to long strip. I'll provide a link below to a video which shows what I'm talking about better than I can explain. Some of my cuts weren't very accurate which left some gaps and holes at the stems, but they were reduced when I trimmed and sanded the stems, and they really disappeared with color matched thickened epoxy! Some of the larger gaps I cut a plug from a color matched scrap piece of cedar, and sanded into a wedge to perfectly fill the gap.

Video:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/4u2E9JAWDn4b5Jo4A

Hope this helps.

[Maddog]

Brian, that link you provided to your build report is awesome; I picked up many good tips! Thank you for sharing. I have been taking a weight conscious approach to this build, but not striving for ultralight. Reading your report has given me some additional ideas for weight savings!!

[Cruiser]

Maddog ...thank you for the kind words.

A thought on the fillet on the inside of your stems .... if I were building with stemless (maybe next build), I would question the "why" of adding that fillet.
What added strength/advantage would that provide? The stems are interlocked, usually there is a couple layers of glass on the outside, if you have decks, that locks the stems at the top ... the fillet really doesn't seem provide anything but weight, and possibly some minor strengthening.

If you are weight conscious, epoxy comes in at ~100 pounds/ft^3, which is 3x higher than cherry (hardwood). I suspect that one decision, to add a fillet, will add more weight than a pair of stems would have and blow any weight savings the stemless build bought you.

Just my $.02 worth

Brian