I'm wondering whether or not to cut scuppers on my 16ft Prospector inwales. While I'm not concerned about the extra work, I'm thinking they may spoil the clean lines a little and make the boat appear a little "busy". Also, my gunwales are ash, and it seems like a much larger and more difficult to seal surface area.
I'd be interested to hear opinions on both sides of the argument. The boat will be used for day trips and rare overnights, so I won't be carrying large loads so lashing points aren't so much of a neccessity.
As an aside, I recut and reglued my scarfs and they're fine. Must've been the cold affecting the epoxy cure...
Gordon
To scupper, or not to scupper
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marchmyres
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:54 am
- Location: Aberdeen, UK
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Patricks Dad
- Posts: 1476
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:11 pm
- Location: Warrenville, Illinois
A couple comments on scuppers (or not). It really is a personal preference. We cut scuppers in our cherry inwales last weekend. Upon re-weighing them, we found we had dropped 2 pounds in weight (due to scuppers, beveling and edge-rounding - not yet tapered) so the weight difference isn't huge (but 2 pounds is 2 pounds). Scuppers are an opportunity to add some uniquiness to the canoe. There are lots of approaches to make scuppers. As you say, they do require more work and more attention for sealing.
You also have to be very careful to ensure you arrange your scuppers to avoid putting them where you would attach your seats.
Some info on one way of making gunwales with scuppers can be found:
http://www.michneboat.com/Gunwales.htm
Also, some discussion on gunwales can be found at (somewhat anti-scupper):
http://www.greenval.com/FAQgunwales.html
If I were king, everyone would have scuppers just so I could look at the different approaches used to create them (I of course, wouldn't have to do any of the work to create them however) :eyebrows
You also have to be very careful to ensure you arrange your scuppers to avoid putting them where you would attach your seats.
Some info on one way of making gunwales with scuppers can be found:
http://www.michneboat.com/Gunwales.htm
Also, some discussion on gunwales can be found at (somewhat anti-scupper):
http://www.greenval.com/FAQgunwales.html
If I were king, everyone would have scuppers just so I could look at the different approaches used to create them (I of course, wouldn't have to do any of the work to create them however) :eyebrows
Glad to hear the scarf joints finally held and it was only the epoxy temps holding things up. When things start going wrong with complications, sometimes it's a real headache to figure out where the problem actually is.
I went with unscuppered inwales because the Huron was going to be used both solo and tandem, loaded and empty, and I didn't know exactly where to locate the bow seat. I didn't want to go with the sliding type in the Huron's symmetrical hull, and after doing some initial measurements and the calculations described in CanoeCraft, drilled the holes and made a temporary seat out of plywood, narrower and a little closer to the midpoint.
This worked out fine in the initial paddles and I went ahead and made the rawhide version after that. The bow seat may still be too far from the midpoint when going solo and empty, so during the winter I made a seat extender that I could use on day trips to check on performance and comfort. I might still move the permanent bow seat closer in for solo use depending on how things work out with the extender, in wind vs calms, loaded vs unloaded, etc, so more flexibility is there for moving seats around with unscuppered inwales.
The very wide scuppered inwales and massive outwales sometimes seen are IMO, just too heavy in appearance and not as attractive as narrower ones. Without scuppers, the inwales can be made thinner and sleeker-looking, and maybe stronger for the weight, but that's just my preference.
I went with unscuppered inwales because the Huron was going to be used both solo and tandem, loaded and empty, and I didn't know exactly where to locate the bow seat. I didn't want to go with the sliding type in the Huron's symmetrical hull, and after doing some initial measurements and the calculations described in CanoeCraft, drilled the holes and made a temporary seat out of plywood, narrower and a little closer to the midpoint.
This worked out fine in the initial paddles and I went ahead and made the rawhide version after that. The bow seat may still be too far from the midpoint when going solo and empty, so during the winter I made a seat extender that I could use on day trips to check on performance and comfort. I might still move the permanent bow seat closer in for solo use depending on how things work out with the extender, in wind vs calms, loaded vs unloaded, etc, so more flexibility is there for moving seats around with unscuppered inwales.
The very wide scuppered inwales and massive outwales sometimes seen are IMO, just too heavy in appearance and not as attractive as narrower ones. Without scuppers, the inwales can be made thinner and sleeker-looking, and maybe stronger for the weight, but that's just my preference.
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Jerry in Wisconsin
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 2:25 am
- Location: Delafield, Wisconsin
Let’s not forget that a scupper is an opening in a boat to allow water to run off. Canoes get wet on the inside as well as on the outside. I have canoes that have scuppers and ones that don’t have scuppers. It sure is easier to drain the water out when I lift the boat upside down in the ones that have scuppers than the ones that don’t. If you don’t have scuppers be sure to carry a sponge with you or you will get wet (or wetter) when you take the canoe out of the water and flip it over. No matter how much you rock and shake a canoe without scuppers, there is always some water left in the canoe that finds its way to your head when you flip the canoe over to carry it. (I think this is one of the laws of the universe).
As far as placement of the seats……I used some C-clamps and “rough” seats to figure out what location worked best. I found that a difference in seat location is not a matter of fraction of an inch but 2 or 3 inches. So blocks that are 2 to 3 inches long with a 2 to 3 inch scupper holes work well.
Of course there is my personal preference in that I think canoes that have scuppers look classy while those that don’t have them look plain and ordinary.
As far as placement of the seats……I used some C-clamps and “rough” seats to figure out what location worked best. I found that a difference in seat location is not a matter of fraction of an inch but 2 or 3 inches. So blocks that are 2 to 3 inches long with a 2 to 3 inch scupper holes work well.
Of course there is my personal preference in that I think canoes that have scuppers look classy while those that don’t have them look plain and ordinary.
The solution to this is to bevel the underside of the solid inwale so that it doesn't trap water, and to provide a drainage hole of some kind at either end, so water won't be trapped under the decks. Even with scuppered inwales, a drainage hole at either end is still a good idea.It sure is easier to drain the water out when I lift the boat upside down in the ones that have scuppers than the ones that don’t. If you don’t have scuppers be sure to carry a sponge with you or you will get wet (or wetter) when you take the canoe out of the water and flip it over. No matter how much you rock and shake a canoe without scuppers, there is always some water left in the canoe that finds its way to your head when you flip the canoe over to carry it.
I used both the above and the water drips off the sides and out the ends on a portage, and the hull dries out inside and under the decks. I suppose scuppered vs non-scuppered mostly boils down to individual taste and maintenance needs - the next canoe I build might well have scuppered inwales.
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Rod Tait
Another consideration
In addition to all the points so far, another consideration for scuppers is that the inwales will be much easier to bend into place if it has scuppers. The Prospector is not one of the more difficult bends but if you were building something else such as a Redbird which has a lot of recurve or the Bob's which has a lot of tumblehome, the scupppers help a lot.
Scuppers
My two cents worth.
I did not put scuppers in the first couple of canoes that I built. Then I built one with scuppers and have to say I like having scuppers better than not. The water drainage is the best reason, but I also like the look. However, scuppers will add time to the project. Probably will add another five hours to making and installing with scuppers. One thing that has not been mentioned is the safety aspect of scuppers. If you have the misfortune of flipping a canoe in cold, deep water, you can rock the canoe to get enough of the water out to re enter the canoe. Rocking the water out of a canoe without scuppers is damn near impossible. With scuppers, it can be done and getting out of cold water and back into your canoe could save your life. I have never tried this, even in warm water conditions, but have read about it as a survival technique. Hope I never have to use it, but if I do, I hope it is in a canoe with scuppers!
I did not put scuppers in the first couple of canoes that I built. Then I built one with scuppers and have to say I like having scuppers better than not. The water drainage is the best reason, but I also like the look. However, scuppers will add time to the project. Probably will add another five hours to making and installing with scuppers. One thing that has not been mentioned is the safety aspect of scuppers. If you have the misfortune of flipping a canoe in cold, deep water, you can rock the canoe to get enough of the water out to re enter the canoe. Rocking the water out of a canoe without scuppers is damn near impossible. With scuppers, it can be done and getting out of cold water and back into your canoe could save your life. I have never tried this, even in warm water conditions, but have read about it as a survival technique. Hope I never have to use it, but if I do, I hope it is in a canoe with scuppers!