Redbird Quantity Surveying

[geordie]

Hi from another Bird man in South Africa. I am just getting going with the moulds and strong back. Believe it or not, I have to import the epoxy myself or make do with some local stuff, which may be OK, but is certainly not “Water clear”.

Can anyone let me know how much I will need for the “Bird” taking into account that this will be my first time? I need this for the WEST and RAKA systems , :shock: and the cloth quantity too please.

Again, the big strip debate! How many strips for a Redbird??

Why do some builders leave out the no 8 stations on this design??

I anticipate a few bangs and bumps when I start paddling (I am definitely a first timer), but I don’t want to put a stem band on. I want to use a double cloth layer on the stems, but can’t remember what the procedure is. Do I use tape or just cut some cloth diagonally. Does this “tape” layer go on first or last.

I am sure that you will be hearing more from me as I go along.
Geordie- South Africa

[KARKAUAI]

Welcome, Geordie, You're about to embark on a GREAT new craft... I'm stil in my first canoe, and can't wait to build my next. Can't help you with Redbird stats, but I'm sure Dean will go on and on and on for you...I'm teasing, Dean, you've given some great input.

I remember a thread from the old forum on the subject of multiple layers of glass, and that got me to thinking about all that wealth of knowledge that we can't access....Ted & Joan, any progress on making the old threads available in Search Mode yet?
Kent

[Dean in Eureka, CA]

Welcome, Geordie, You're about to embark on a GREAT new craft.

Kent

Kent,
I am going to assume that you're talking about the canoe itself and not the aspects of boatbuilding. These Redbirds seem to be cropping up all over the place, don't they?

Geordie,
Two things; Canoecraft and Mr. Glen Smith have all the answers, well at least Glen does. There are a few key things that Ted's book just doesn't explain well enough to fully grasp. Cutting the mortise into the keel area of the stem on the hull is a good example. I wish Ted would have put at least half as much effort into explaining this as he did explaining how to fill up a syringe with glue.
I am a first time builder myself. Canoecraft reccomends one piece of 6 oz. cloth 60" wide x length of canoe for the inside and the same thing except 1' longer for the outside. Ted's book also advises getting 2 gallons of epoxy resin and hardener. Ted doesn't give an estimate for quantities on strips, but does reccomend 50-60 board feet 1' longer than the canoe. I don't know if you are going to be milling your strips or buying finished strips. I have heard guys say that they used somewhere in the neighborhood of about 70 strips. I probably milled up enough strips for about three canoes, to give me a good selection of color choices and I decided to bookmatch everything, which means that my strips are in groups of at least four strips. I'm pretty sure that bias cut cloth is the way to go on your stems, I am unknowledgable about the tapes.
Yes, I did leave station #8 out of the setup. There was much talk about this on the old forum. I did it for two reasons:
1. For some mysterious reason, (probably something only a Norwegian could do) the first time I set up my forms, I doubled the layer of the stem stations, making them 1" thick. I was a bit confused about the deductions for #8. I have since converted over to one layer 1/2" thick on the stem stations and I'm still cutting into them while shaping the stems.
2. Much time had past from when I had layed out and cut all the forms to when I was finally clear on #8. With the posibility of the blueprint paper having shrunk a bit, which would have given me an inaccurate pattern, I decided to omit the darned thing all together.
I have been using web band clamps in this area of the canoe during the stripping process and all looks well.
I would strongly reccomend having extra strips on hand. The short scraps really come in handy during the stripping phase.
I would also reccomend the reconsideration of the brass stem band. For all the effort put forth, I want to be able to use this thing without allways being worried about bumping into things. Bangability is good.
I would also advise you to give http://www.michneboat.com a look see. John has a wonderful way to attack the stem shaping phase.

Kent,
Was that short enough?

[Glen Smith]

Hi Geordie,

You will need approximately 80 full length strips if using bead & cove, a few less if going with a rolling bevel. This is assuming a strip width of 3/4" before B & C routing. Don't use tape anywhere on a canoe. It's only use is in S & G designs and for the inner deck to hull seam of a kayak that doesn't have sheer clamps. Use bias cut cloth applied after glassing the hull if you want to cover the outer stems feathered in (sanded) so as to blend in with the hull glass then coated with a few coats of epoxy. As Dean said, brass stem bands give better protection. Mine have a few gouges from running into "unseen" sharp rocks and without them the canoe would have suffered glass damage.

Enjoy your project,
Glen.

[Jeff in Pembroke]

Hi Geordie,

You'll love the boat. I don't have too much to add except that I used 2 and 1/2 B-packs of WEST 105 resin for my Redbird, that's about 2 1/2 gallons. I used 205 hardener for bonding and 207 special coating hardener for wet out.
Station 8 worked well for me and it really helped define the fine entry of the bow and stern of this boat. It did seem to pose a lot of problems for some builders in the previous version of this forum. I have a good photo of it but I can't seem to be able to attach it with my posts. I tried clicking the Ímg' button above but I can't get the photo to post. I 've copied it to the clipboard but I can't get it to paste into my message. Let me know your e-mail and I can send it to you. Alternatively, if someone can enlighten my computer illiterate brain then I'll post it here for all to see.

Happy building,

Jeff

[Glen Smith]

Hi Jeff,

You can't post a photo directly from your computer. It has to be located on a website from which you can create a link to post the picture here. The service I was using for this purpose got wiped out by a hacker on the weekend. Some photo service sites like HPPHOTO do not support linking so they have become useless for this purpose. There are still some sites out there that support photo linking but you have to search and try.

[Rob from Hamilton]

Hi Geordie,
I built a Redbird about two years ago. It really is a beautiful boat. It's fast, stable, and it turns on a dime. I can handle it alone or fully loaded with five of us. It doesn't ride too high in the water but that's okay with me. I try to stick to flat water anyway.
I used 55 - 57 full length strips, 3/4 inch beaded and coved. Of course you don't use them all as full length, (and it depends on how wide yours are). Many are cut shorter for the bottom etc. I even added one strip to the sheerline to make it deeper.
I bought two "B" packs of West System 105, with 207 for the hardener for everything. I had some left over, and I think I used lots.
Station #8 seems like it's extra, so I left it out too. I like the way my boat slices through the water. I don't think you'll miss it.
I added a brass stem band and I think it really finishes off the boat. Makes it look like a real boat. Considering the extra weight you'll be adding for extra glass and epoxy, it doesn't really add that much.
For my next boat I will use even less Epoxy, thinner strips, and thinner gunwales for lightness. But I kind of like the brass. It was interesting to put on too.
Have fun building this boat. Building it will change your life.
Rob from Hamilton