New wedges for stapleless

Juneaudave · Post by **Juneaudave** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:04 pm

I need to make up new wedges for stapleless construction (Canoecraft method). On the last canoe, I used cedar wedges and had problems during gluing where they stuck to the strips from glue squeeze out. I could knock them off ok, but eventually ended up putting a piece of plastic tape over the wedge which prevented sticking. A lot of my wedges were wasted, burnt as kindling for a marshmellow roast or tossed as I swept the floor. So I need some more...Anyway, this time, I thought I would cut some hardwood wedges. Could I coat them with a finish or wax of some sort to minimize sticking to the strips during glue up? What do the experienced strippers do?

DortoH · Post by **DortoH** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:36 pm

Check this thread. First post has a link to some interesting stapleless wedgeclamps.

http://www.bearmountainboats.com/phpbb2 ... .php?t=115

Juneaudave · Post by **Juneaudave** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 12:04 am

No thanks...you try it first!!!! :D I'm actually using a modified Bearmountain clamping method and have 2 inch holes drilled through the edges of all my molds. I used it last time, it worked well for me, and I'm comfortable with it. The only problem (if it was one) was that the wedges stuck to the glue that squeezed out between strips. In almost all cases, a sharp rap with a hammer set them free. But with cedar wedges, they got beat up, and I took some edges off the coves of some strips that I think I could avoid. I was thinking with hardwood, maybe waxed or oiled or taped, that the wedges wouldn't stick. Must be the perfectionist thing...the stuck wedges didn't affect the ultimate product, but I'm always looking for just a little bit better way to do things!!

Dean in Eureka, CA · Post by **Dean in Eureka, CA** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 12:39 am

Dave,
My concern with wax would be contaminating the hull with wax. The packaging tape sounds like a better way to go to me. I'm not experiencing any problems with my untaped, unwaxed wedges becoming glue bound to the hull because I insert the wedge just above the glue line so no squeeze out comes in contact with it. My cedar wedge covers about 2/3 to 3/4 of the strip being installed and a bit of the tapered cove wedge that holds the new strip incontact with the strip below it. If I use more than one wedge on a paticular horseshoe jig, I install the second wedge below the new glue line.
BTW I'm only installing one strip at a time, I don't know if you were or will be installing multiple strips at once. I could see my method being a more prone to getting squeeze out on a wedge with multiple strip installation.
BTW my tapered cove wedges are getting somewhat beat up on the tapered edge that comes in contact with the horseshoe jig. It has been suggested to me that I may be exerting too much downward pressure with these, as I am up to 22 hull hold down blocks now. (That's a Martin Step method to keep the hull from lifting off of the forms)
I was and still am very intreaged with that new jig setup that Todd showed us sometime back. If I'm not mistaken, I think Bernie from Illinois was going to try them. You might ask him if he's using them. I'm going to try them on my next project, a sea kayak. I think they will be a fast and easy setup to use, giving me better results from having the strip in the final position throughout it's length, before the glue starts setting. I'm going to do some tests first, because I remember that the guy in the pictures that Todd showed us, also used quite a few bar clamps as well. (Like maybe they didn't give enough pressure holding the strips to the forms?)
BTW both types of my wedges are from the same size strips that I'm using. I did rip most of the cove edge off of the strip material on the wedges that hold the strip up against the form. So they are a bit less in width than the full strip width used on the hull.
Sorry it takes me so many words to describe something so simple, maybe it's a Norwegian thing.
I'm curious, what is your strip width and thickness on the Rice Lake Skiff?

Juneaudave · Post by **Juneaudave** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:45 am

The plans say 7/8 to 1 1/2 inch wide by 1/4 thick will work and suggest 1 1/8 as a good choice to keep the width in proportion to the boat. I've got some 2 x 6 x 16 S4S flat grained ceder boards that I'm thinking about planing to 1 1/4 thick and ripping edge grain strips. I will probably go ahead and rip up some 4/4 stock to turn the bildge in case I need them. Another thought I'm having is to grab some local sitka spruce to fill in the football and build the keel and keelson. There's lots of that around here.

Rod Tait · Post by **Rod Tait** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:57 am

Dave,
I have not really had much of a problem with wedges sticking to stripping. I use oak wedges for the outer pressure. I purchase these from the local building supply outlet. For downward pressure, I rarely use wedges but rather just force the strip into place with downward force and protect the cove with a scrap piece of stripping. This is of course the one strip at a time method on a kayak.

As for prtecting the wedges, I would recommend that you dip each wedge in some varnish and let harden. I have used varnish to prevent strips from being glued to forms. Anything that prevents glue from absorbing the wedge will prevent it being glued to the boat, but I agree with the waxing. May contaminate the surface.

I can e-mail you some instructional info if you wish.

Peter Kotowych · Post by **Peter Kotowych** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:28 pm

Hi Dave,

I uses "L" shaped pieces made from plywood when I was stripping my Bob's Special.
I would get the strip in place and then use a scrap strip with the bead down. I would place the "L" such that it applied downward and side pressure. I would then simply clamp the "L" in place. I did not have holes in the molds as per Canoecraft. Other times I would just screw the "L" to the mold.

Penetang Pete

Juneaudave · Post by **Juneaudave** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 10:50 pm

Hey Dean... Do you think those blocks will break off ok? I like the idea but didn"t have a lot of success with it. I'm kind of a one strip at a time guy myself and had a lot of problems with the hull pulling off the mold. Glen, I think, told me to do whatever it took to keep the hull aginst the molds and suggested a number of methodlogys. Anyway, it took me two months over the Alaska winter to just strip the canoe. I ended up using judiciously placed brads to anchor things down. I hated to see the holes, but....after paddling the canoe awhile, scraping the bottom to a point where I know I'll have to do fall maintenance, trying to fill holes during construction, leaving holes unfilled during construction, etc...I'm not so sure it is worth the effort except for "builder's ego". Nobody has ever said anything except the canoe is beautiful, and even I don't notice the holes from the brads I used on the stapleless contruction now.

Anyway..I digress..I never had any real problems with sticking wedges, I just thought that there might be a better mousetrap out there to make things neater and easier...Thanks for all the suggestions..Juneaudave

Dean in Eureka, CA · Post by **Dean in Eureka, CA** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:29 pm

Dave,
Funny you ask that about the hull hold down blocks. I was sharing the same concern with Glen about that. I accidently glued one in the wrong location and when I fiddled with it, it made a "nice" little tear out on one of the strips at the cove area. It is going to require some filler for sure. Glen advised me to ask Martin about that, so I did. Martin says that the speed of the hammer blow shears the blocks off real nice. I was also worried that maybe I had used the wrong glue also, but Martin told me that he uses the same glue as on the strips.
We'll just have to wait and see, I'm sure you'll see me whining about it if I have any problems with tear out.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:16 am

My first question would be is there a way for you to apply a bit less glue? Odvious, I know, but I am on the home stretch on a canoe right now with the staple-less method and wedge stripping has not been an issue. I have minimal squeese out yet the bond between strips is solid. I built a jig for my disc sander that puts a consistent angle on the edge. I have been using this for both my joints where short strips come together and also to put the angle on the wedges. I have been using the extra strip material for the wedges. I generally only use a wedge once, and then touch up the edge on the sander as they tend to develop notches in them which tend to catch on the "U" bracket.

Probably not the fastest or most efficient manner out there, but I am in no hurry. The results so far are acceptable.

Shuswap Pat · Post by **Shuswap Pat** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:04 am

Try using UHMW for wedges. It is a dense polyethelene plastic that is easy to machine. It is used in industrial applications for plastic bearings, slides and wear strips. You can get it from most plastic suppliers, or Lee Valley.

Pat

Chuck in Pa · Post by **Chuck in Pa** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:09 pm

I was thinking that plastic would be perfect for this right when I read the previous post.
I'm starting a Tom Yost folder right now, so I have plenty of plastic. A 4x8 sheet will last a couple kayaks, not even including the cutouts from the centers of the frames.

I can send you a piece of it if you want, 1/2 inch think, as big as you need, It was only 90$ a sheet, so enough scrap to do what you want costs almost nothing, and I can't use it anyway. Just email me your address with how much you need and how big the pieces should be.

You can easily machine the plastic. In fact, it's less damaging to your tools than wood.

-Chuck
(titaniumchuck-at-yahoo.com)

Juneaudave · Post by **Juneaudave** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:09 am

Hey Chuck...Tell you what, I like the plastic idea...send me a box of your scraps (I could use enough stock for about 30 wedge strips about 4"long by about an inch wide" ) and I'll send you a freezer box of fresh smoked Alaska salmon and frozen halibut!!! Can't get that in PA... Juneaudave@aol.com

Dean in Eureka, CA · Post by **Dean in Eureka, CA** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:54 am

Hey Dave,
Just in case... I'll be on standby with 1/4" polycarbonate (Lexan) ready to ship, if the need arises for the fish swap. I'm not tyring to butt in here, but the fish caught my eye.

pake · Post by **pake** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:38 am

FWIW, after stripping several hulls a variety of different ways, I mostly now use either L shaped or horseshoe shaped plywood jigs at the stations using a 3 inch piece of 1/4 inch dowel in the cove instead of wedges. Hold the jig to the stations with 99 cent black spring clamps from Home Depot. This setup easily holds the strips tight against the stations. In between stations, if needed, I use another 3 inch piece of 1/4 inch dowel and 1/2 inch wide strapping tape pulling it down to the strips below. The tape is very strong, allowing you to exert as much down pressure as you need to hold errent strips in place. This system takes only slightly more time than stapling as you can move from side to side while one strip sets up. The tape pulls off easily and one roll is more than enough to do a boat. I start out a session by hanging 8 inch strips of packing tape along the strong back and have the dowel pieces laying between each station so all I have to do is reach down and grab one if it's needed. Once the glue dries, peel the tape off and the dowel rolls right out of the cove. It's a very simple system that works well for me.

The Bear Mountain Boat Shop