Hi new to the forum, I have been thinking about bulding a Kayak for a couple of years. It is something that will alway me to enjoy to of my pashion Woodworking and Paddleing. I presently have a canoe of the fiberglass type, and used to whitewater kayak when i was in my teens. But would like to make a Touring kayak, it will be used mostly on lakes, maybe on occaion in one of the great lakes but mostly lake paddling. So my questions are as follows:
1. have any of you chronicaled your build, so it will give me an idea of the experence. I have ordeded Ted book also but haven't recived it yet.
2. Thier are lots of designs any recommendations.
Thank you for any help or wisdom
Mark
Kayak Building experence
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Tyronewoodworks
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:05 am
- Location: Bowmanville, Ontario
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canoeblderinmt
- Posts: 415
- Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:04 pm
- Location: Butte, MT
Mark,
Welcome to the Forum. Try the "Choosing a Design" forum for lots of thoughts on choosing a kayak. I have just bought Kayakcraft and you will find a very thorough step-by-step description of the process. Many builders also have lots of pictures posted on the site as they complete their builds. Try a search on "Kayaks" and enjoy reading the posts.
As far as recommendations, there are many posts in Choosing a Design that address this question. There are several factors to consider such as your size and shape, paddling experience, what kind of paddling you want to do, how big is your building space, etc for you to consider in choosing a design. As for me, after receiving lots of good advice from the Forum, I'm going to build the Endeavour 17. Oh, and the 14 for my girlfriend...Oh, and maybe Steve Killings new solo canoe, and a redbird, and...well, this does get addicting!
Good luck and welcome to the family of builders,
Greg
Welcome to the Forum. Try the "Choosing a Design" forum for lots of thoughts on choosing a kayak. I have just bought Kayakcraft and you will find a very thorough step-by-step description of the process. Many builders also have lots of pictures posted on the site as they complete their builds. Try a search on "Kayaks" and enjoy reading the posts.
As far as recommendations, there are many posts in Choosing a Design that address this question. There are several factors to consider such as your size and shape, paddling experience, what kind of paddling you want to do, how big is your building space, etc for you to consider in choosing a design. As for me, after receiving lots of good advice from the Forum, I'm going to build the Endeavour 17. Oh, and the 14 for my girlfriend...Oh, and maybe Steve Killings new solo canoe, and a redbird, and...well, this does get addicting!
Good luck and welcome to the family of builders,
Greg
" Choose to chance the rapids, Dare to dance the tide..."
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Tyronewoodworks
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:05 am
- Location: Bowmanville, Ontario
Thank you for the welcome, Hope to ask lots of dumb question over the next will.
I figured design suggestions would be a hard on to answer. I will continue to read and learn more about different modles and what people think of them over the next little bit. The net is great in some cases for other builders but you get a ton of junk that dosn't relate also.
A little more about me, 5'10" weight 185, Skill level in a canoe is average I used to be much better but my wife isn't much for ruffing it in the wild so don't get near as much water time any more. That is the part of the kayak that I like the ability to get out and paddle solo. Kayaking experence has been only white water on the ottawa river when i was in my teens. So I will say novice. My wood shop would be to small for a kayak so i would use one bay of my garage for assembly and use my shop for wood fab, I also have a decent collection of tail free tools that i enjoy using.
So the question that came to mind as a read post over the last while is for the builder that makes severl do you keep the old model or sell them. If you sell them do you find it difficult to find a buyer and do you recoupe for material cost and some labor or only the material. It apprars to be a potentally addictive feeling to make a kayak or canoe and paddle it and want to try a different design or modify a design.
Thank you for your help
Mark
I figured design suggestions would be a hard on to answer. I will continue to read and learn more about different modles and what people think of them over the next little bit. The net is great in some cases for other builders but you get a ton of junk that dosn't relate also.
A little more about me, 5'10" weight 185, Skill level in a canoe is average I used to be much better but my wife isn't much for ruffing it in the wild so don't get near as much water time any more. That is the part of the kayak that I like the ability to get out and paddle solo. Kayaking experence has been only white water on the ottawa river when i was in my teens. So I will say novice. My wood shop would be to small for a kayak so i would use one bay of my garage for assembly and use my shop for wood fab, I also have a decent collection of tail free tools that i enjoy using.
So the question that came to mind as a read post over the last while is for the builder that makes severl do you keep the old model or sell them. If you sell them do you find it difficult to find a buyer and do you recoupe for material cost and some labor or only the material. It apprars to be a potentally addictive feeling to make a kayak or canoe and paddle it and want to try a different design or modify a design.
Thank you for your help
Mark
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Glen Smith
- Posts: 3719
- Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 9:08 am
- Location: Baie-St-Paul, Quebec, Canada
Hi Mark, you can read this info to begin with: http://www.bearmountainboats.com/KayakTechnical.htm to assist you in choosing a design. Bear Mountain also have some stitch & glue kayak kits if you prefer to go that route.
You could start by building a canoe and kayak storage rack or better yet, a boathouse, and fill it up with boats. I have managed to sell a few kayaks but I haven't really made any profit from it. My first kayak took 350 hours to build and the materials cost me somewhere between $1,000 and $1,500 and it has been evaluated at $8,000. There aren't very many people in my neck of the woods willing to pay that amount for a kayak. Now that I have almost a dozen boats built (including scale models of various sizes) I have cut down the build time to about half and I manage to get materials for about half also.
May I suggest a little exercise? Look at the canoe & kayak photos on this forum or available through the "Products" link and try to put a dollar value on each boat. Then ask yourself if you know anyone who would be willing to pay that value. It's a tough market!
You could start by building a canoe and kayak storage rack or better yet, a boathouse, and fill it up with boats. I have managed to sell a few kayaks but I haven't really made any profit from it. My first kayak took 350 hours to build and the materials cost me somewhere between $1,000 and $1,500 and it has been evaluated at $8,000. There aren't very many people in my neck of the woods willing to pay that amount for a kayak. Now that I have almost a dozen boats built (including scale models of various sizes) I have cut down the build time to about half and I manage to get materials for about half also.
May I suggest a little exercise? Look at the canoe & kayak photos on this forum or available through the "Products" link and try to put a dollar value on each boat. Then ask yourself if you know anyone who would be willing to pay that value. It's a tough market!
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Bryan Hansel
- Posts: 678
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 6:36 pm
- Location: Grand Marais, MN
- Contact:
OH Have I! Check out my builder's log: http://www.nessmuking.com/mykayak1.htm She a long one with 15 parts now.1. have any of you chronicaled your build, so it will give me an idea of the experence. I have ordeded Ted book also but haven't recived it yet.
Before I make any recommendations, it would be nice to know more about how you envision the use of your kayak. Will you use it for camping? Do you expect to paddle in rough coastal water? Is it an Apostle Island kayak? Day trips? How heavy do you pack? How do you rank speed, stability, seaworthiness, maneuverability, tracking? And what kind of kayaks do you like the looks of? Do you want to use it for rolling as a sport?2. Thier are lots of designs any recommendations.
So far from what you've written, I think we can narrow your options down to a kayak in the range of 16' to 18' and somewhere between 21" and 24". Of course, there are tons of models in this range.
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Tyronewoodworks
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:05 am
- Location: Bowmanville, Ontario
Glen
Thanks for the point in the right direct I will spend sometime looking that link over. I had figured that labour and materials would not make this a profit type deal, but was more wondering about ability to sell boats to free up room and cover material cost for a different build.
Bryan
Thank you for the builders log looks like what I was looking for and will read it over and bookmark it for the future also. Couple of answers to your questions
Camping and day trips: Yes but only 2 day and will probly be with a friend with a kayak or my Wife or Dad and Son with my canoe.
Type of Water: Being in Ontario the sea is not happening but lake Ontario may be but mostly lake and rivers.
Packing for trips: Since I have paddled with my Dad and portaged with him since I was 10 I feel I pack very light so I only have to make one trip with a light load.
What do I want in a Kayak in order of importance: Tracking, stability, Speed Seaworthiness, Maneuverability.
Types of kayaks I like: I like the strip style construction but models so far that i like the shape of would be: Endeavour, Night Heron, Guillemot.
Thank you once again for your help opions and direction to a newbe how showed up out of the blue.
Mark
Thanks for the point in the right direct I will spend sometime looking that link over. I had figured that labour and materials would not make this a profit type deal, but was more wondering about ability to sell boats to free up room and cover material cost for a different build.
Bryan
Thank you for the builders log looks like what I was looking for and will read it over and bookmark it for the future also. Couple of answers to your questions
Camping and day trips: Yes but only 2 day and will probly be with a friend with a kayak or my Wife or Dad and Son with my canoe.
Type of Water: Being in Ontario the sea is not happening but lake Ontario may be but mostly lake and rivers.
Packing for trips: Since I have paddled with my Dad and portaged with him since I was 10 I feel I pack very light so I only have to make one trip with a light load.
What do I want in a Kayak in order of importance: Tracking, stability, Speed Seaworthiness, Maneuverability.
Types of kayaks I like: I like the strip style construction but models so far that i like the shape of would be: Endeavour, Night Heron, Guillemot.
Thank you once again for your help opions and direction to a newbe how showed up out of the blue.
Mark
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Bryan Hansel
- Posts: 678
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 6:36 pm
- Location: Grand Marais, MN
- Contact:
My understanding of both the Night Heron and the Guillemot is that they are generally much looser tracking kayaks. So, if you're ranking tracking as your number one item in importance, then I'd count those designs straight out.
Another kayak that comes to mind style-wise is the Panache. It's a bit longer, but has those nice upswept lines. It's suppose to be a strong tracker also. The Disko Bay would be a sportier model to look at also with a very nice sweeping sheer-line. It's suppose to be a good tracker.
The Cape Ann Expedition and Storm also come to mind as good trackers, stable, and speedy. They both made my short list before I decided to design my own yak--Siskiwit Bay--, which I absolutely love for Lake Superior.
But it sounds like the Endeavour is a very good choice for you. It certainly should be at the top of your final list. I'm not fond of the looks of the rear deck, but that's just me -- I'm picky. And there are tons of positive reports about its performance.
I'm always happy to help out with boat building. It's a very rewarding hobby, and it's always fun to get more builders onto the water with their own creations. Ask as many questions and question us as often as you need to.
Cheers,
Bryan
Another kayak that comes to mind style-wise is the Panache. It's a bit longer, but has those nice upswept lines. It's suppose to be a strong tracker also. The Disko Bay would be a sportier model to look at also with a very nice sweeping sheer-line. It's suppose to be a good tracker.
The Cape Ann Expedition and Storm also come to mind as good trackers, stable, and speedy. They both made my short list before I decided to design my own yak--Siskiwit Bay--, which I absolutely love for Lake Superior.
But it sounds like the Endeavour is a very good choice for you. It certainly should be at the top of your final list. I'm not fond of the looks of the rear deck, but that's just me -- I'm picky. And there are tons of positive reports about its performance.
I'm always happy to help out with boat building. It's a very rewarding hobby, and it's always fun to get more builders onto the water with their own creations. Ask as many questions and question us as often as you need to.
Cheers,
Bryan
Mark - Do you plan to attend the Small Craft Rendezvous in August? Its just a short drive from where you are. There were several Endeavours at last year's event, so you'd likely be able to test-drive one. Unless my plans get derailed, I expect I'll be there, and you're welcome to take mine out for a paddle if you like.
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Tyronewoodworks
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:05 am
- Location: Bowmanville, Ontario
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Glen Smith
- Posts: 3719
- Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 9:08 am
- Location: Baie-St-Paul, Quebec, Canada
Mark, I hope I didn't appear too harsh in my first response. :embarassed
Selling a canoe or kayak to cover the cost of materials is a realistic goal that is easier to attain than if you try to make a profit from your boat-building.
Enjoy your project(s).
About the Rendezvous, you should try to make it as one of the subjects covered will be a question & answer period and you could get info about the boat building business.
This is the line-up so far:
Schedule for the Small Boat Builders Rendezvous Aug. 19 and 20, 2006.
Saturday August 19th 9 am - 4 pm
Displays at Del Crary Park downtown Peterborough on the water and land - held in cooperation with the Trent Severn Antique and Classic Boat Society
Saturday evening 6 pm - 10 pm
Picnic supper and fun movies at Bear Mountain
Sunday August 20th 9 am - 4 pm
Land displays and Presentations at Bear Mountain on Matchett Line
Cedar-canvas construction - Ron Frenette
Fiberglassing demo - Ted Moores & Ron Frenette
Lapstrake construction - Peter Code
Paddle making and repair - Gerry Todd
Sailing canoes - history and use - John Walker & Dick Persson (John will also demonstrate the bird's mouth of mast building)
Seat caning - Linda Squires
Steam bending - Fred Forster, Dick Persson
Question period - questions about repairs, history, the boat business, design (Steve Killing, Ted Moores., Dick Persson., Skip Isson)
Varnishing - Will Ruch
Walter Dean and the Sunnyside Cruiser - Don Curtis
Selling a canoe or kayak to cover the cost of materials is a realistic goal that is easier to attain than if you try to make a profit from your boat-building.
Enjoy your project(s).
About the Rendezvous, you should try to make it as one of the subjects covered will be a question & answer period and you could get info about the boat building business.
This is the line-up so far:
Schedule for the Small Boat Builders Rendezvous Aug. 19 and 20, 2006.
Saturday August 19th 9 am - 4 pm
Displays at Del Crary Park downtown Peterborough on the water and land - held in cooperation with the Trent Severn Antique and Classic Boat Society
Saturday evening 6 pm - 10 pm
Picnic supper and fun movies at Bear Mountain
Sunday August 20th 9 am - 4 pm
Land displays and Presentations at Bear Mountain on Matchett Line
Cedar-canvas construction - Ron Frenette
Fiberglassing demo - Ted Moores & Ron Frenette
Lapstrake construction - Peter Code
Paddle making and repair - Gerry Todd
Sailing canoes - history and use - John Walker & Dick Persson (John will also demonstrate the bird's mouth of mast building)
Seat caning - Linda Squires
Steam bending - Fred Forster, Dick Persson
Question period - questions about repairs, history, the boat business, design (Steve Killing, Ted Moores., Dick Persson., Skip Isson)
Varnishing - Will Ruch
Walter Dean and the Sunnyside Cruiser - Don Curtis
which kayak
Mark:
I agree with Bryan that the Guillemot is not a great tracking kayak, however as you gain eperiance the tracking will be less of an issue. I think it should be concidered, I am however prejudiced as I have one. I have paddled quite a number of kayaks and find that the Guilly was the best for ME. Mine is the L as I am a bit on the large size.
Bryan and Glen has lots more experience than I and were I you I would tend to listen to them. Also I might recomend the Guillemot site as another place to solicit advice, that is a more totally kayak oriented site. Between this site and the Guilly site there is a wealth of information available for the asking that no amount of money could buy. Glen and Bryan are two of the best among many whos knowledge combined with KayakCraft and other books will make a building experienc much easier. J R. Ackley
I agree with Bryan that the Guillemot is not a great tracking kayak, however as you gain eperiance the tracking will be less of an issue. I think it should be concidered, I am however prejudiced as I have one. I have paddled quite a number of kayaks and find that the Guilly was the best for ME. Mine is the L as I am a bit on the large size.
Bryan and Glen has lots more experience than I and were I you I would tend to listen to them. Also I might recomend the Guillemot site as another place to solicit advice, that is a more totally kayak oriented site. Between this site and the Guilly site there is a wealth of information available for the asking that no amount of money could buy. Glen and Bryan are two of the best among many whos knowledge combined with KayakCraft and other books will make a building experienc much easier. J R. Ackley
I have now completed a Cape Ann Storm LT for my daughter. You can see and read some comments about the building in the link below. It took almost a year to completet, but I did not work on it from Oct-April due to back surgery. I built a Redbrid canoe previously and found teh kayak to be more challenging and time consuming. II found One Ocean Kayaks to be a good source on the web and Vaclav Stejskal gave really good advice via email through the building process. It never took more than one day for him to respond to my questions and his answers were on target. I plan to made the Cape Ann Expedition my next kayak. The Storm LT is built for a smaller paddler (160 lbs) and at 215lbs and size 13 feet it it just too smal for me. However, I sure like the way she handles and think I would enjoy the Expedition greatly.1. have any of you chronicaled your build, so it will give me an idea of the experence. I have ordeded Ted book also but haven't recived it yet.
Also Nick Shade has a good book out on building kayaks.
http://bluestempaddler.com/stripkayak/index.html
http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/guillemot/Book
Mark - I'm building a Guillemot and you can check out my builder's log at http://pawistik.blogspot.com
Cheers,
Bryan
Cheers,
Bryan
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Tyronewoodworks
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:05 am
- Location: Bowmanville, Ontario
Thanks Bassbug and the two Bryan for sharing your links on your kayak. Okay I can defenitly say that my knowledge of construction of kayaks is grown since my first post and will continue my reasearch and hopefull choice a design soon but think i will wait tll after i get a chance to see some other boats hands on at the rendezvous.
Once again to all thank you so very much.
Mark
Once again to all thank you so very much.
Mark