Problems and Questions

[doe4rae]

Hi Glen,
the "fixture" used to bend the inwales around was nothing more than the molds that were used to shape the hull of the canoe positioned in the same distances as the finished canoe. I used the center station mold and the end molds. I am not sure if setting up all the molds in between would have made any difference though. Anyway, it clearly did not work. CanoeCraft isn't clear about the orientation of the scarf joint but it seems the concensus here is to put them the other way of what I understood from the book -- and in my mind that seemed more logical so I will do that.
Lots of great advice! Thank you everyone and Happy Valentines Day!!

[sedges]

The continued discussion of this is gradually making things clearer.

I think your bending jig with just the center and end molds WAS part of the problem.

With just the three molds you were trying to shape the stick into a V instead of a curve. With all the molds the stick would have had support all the way around the sweep of the curve.

The same thing was happening when you tried to bend it inside the boat with pieces hooked on the stem ends and pulling the stick into the center. Just three points makes a V not a curve.

[Glen Smith]

Sedges, that's exactly what I am getting at. Dawne, just do the bending on the canoe itself. The harest part is to curve the ends upwards to follow the upcurve of the sheerline. This could require steaming 3 or 4 feet at the ends using a steambox.

[Larry in Champaign]

Take length of 2x, 3-4' long and set one end on the stem and one end on the shear. Transfer the shearline to the 2x and cut along this mark to form your jig. As Glen said, you are only bending for the upturn at the ends.

[doe4rae]

It is surprisingly reassuring that we've been able to pinpoint some things I absolutely can change and should and should not have done! When something breaks or doesn't work and it seems like you did everything right, it is more discouraging then if it doesn't work and there is a definite "why". I don't say it often, but in this instance I'm glad to be told I did something wrong so that there is hope it can be made right!!

Thank you for all these bits of advice. I feel almost confident enough to try it again.

Just to clarify my reasoning behind the station mold idea: Up until this point I have pretty much tried to follow CanoeCraft to the letter. I saw and understood the idea of the 2x6 to bend the ends of the gunnels around. I didn't think I wanted to try it because I wasn't sure how to transfer the shape of the sheer line onto the 2x6 and I also didn't know what I would use to cut that shape onto the 2x6. That's how I came up with the -- um -- "joint torture fixture". Kinda made me laugh with that one Glen.

[pumpkin]

As you are bending apply some heat using a heat gun. Just be careful not to melt your glass or scorch the wood. Stay away from your scarf joints! A hair drier might work if you don't have a heat gun.

Matthew

[vann evans]

I realize that you are trying to salvage the parts of the gunnels that you can. However, for this boat or the future, this may be a viable suggestion:

Instead of using scarf joints on full thickness materials, how about laminating several 1/4" strips to make up the 3/4" starting thickness. That way, you can use several shorter pieces for each layer and not have to have 16' material. Make sure none of the joints are close to each other in either the horizontal or vertical plane. If the wood is the same species, I bet the joints would not be overly visible. If you used different woods in each layer, it might add to the overall appearance. this would be somewhat similar to the way the stems were laminated.

I have never tried this-I actually used full length 3/4"x16' ash for both inner and outer gunnels. But it seems like it might be an alternate way to get the full length gunnels without scarf joints and without full length materials. I guess it would also depend on how much curve was in the gunnel line also. I made a Freedom 15, which has very little upturn at the bow and stern, so the gunnels were relatively easy to install as solid material.

What does everybody think???

Vann Evans

[pyrofly73]

Talk about Dejavu...
Vann it would work. Laminated gunnels are very common in different builds like stitch and glue dinghies etc. I suggested the same thing a few days ago when maple was being considered for the gunnels. I even brought up the design possibilities of using different woods in the lamination. I personally don't like fighting with wood and laminations are so much stronger than solid wood anyway.

that being said.

I think when she orients the scarfs the right way and uses the boat as the former she will be presently surprised. I would definitely cut the scuppers on the inner ones first though. it will be day and night as far as easy of bend.

Xavier

[Larry in Champaign]

I used laminated gunnels on the solo canoe in my avatar. After glassing the exterior I let the hull set for a couple of weeks before sanding the epoxy. I then used T-88 to glue a 3/16x3/4 strip of cedar to the exterior and after this cured capped it with the same size in walnut. I then took the hull off of the forms, glassed the interior, and repeated the process on the interior. All of these strips were scarfed to length before installation. As far as strength goes, these skinny gunnels are plenty strong and no, I don't take on water in heavy waves. My seats are attached to the hull so I didn't need the typical thickness on the inwales. I see no reason why this process wouldn't work if you wanted full size gunnels.

Larry

[doe4rae]

I bought extra maple just in case something like this happened. I don't like the idea of having two joints on each side. One was bad enough. So I'll just rip a couple of new inwales and re-orient the scarf, watch myself on the clamping pressure, cut the scuppers, apply a little heat to turn up the ends (though it probably isn't necessary,there isn't much recurve at the bow and stern) and hope for the best! The laminated inwale idea has a lot of appeal but seems beyond my ability. Too many questions I don't think I could work out on my own: Would you build up the laminations on the hull itself? If so, then scuppers are out - right? If not, then I would be afraid that a laminated inwale would resist taking the curves of the hull even more than a solid piece of hardwood. Say you used 1/4" pieces of hardwood laminated... how do you keep them all lined up?
Its probably totally evident already but I will still say it: this part of the build has me more overwhelmed than anything I've done so far! Just waiting for it to warm up to at least 25 degrees before I set up the saw in the garage again. Plenty of sanding to do until then.

[pyrofly73]

D,

Take a look at these.

http://michneboat.com/Gunwales.htm

They are laminated.

I know based on the way your canoe is coming out you can easily do it.

You would laminate the scupper blocks onto your first strip on the bench then after truing everything on the table saw you epoxy the whole assembly to the boat. if you want it a little fatter than you would epoxy another thin strip on top of the assmbly. Use lots of clamps. You can even use cheap home made pvc ones like this

http://pages.prodigy.net/bikemap/clamps2.jpg

the only alignment you need to worry about is up and down and you would just check that as you clamped. It's very straight forward.

Xavier