Scaling building plans for the Ranger 15 ?

[HighPlainsDrifter]

I finished my Ranger 15 a few years back. Following the Ranger, I built a 13' canoe and finished that in 2018. I want to get another canoe going and here is what I have been thinking. I would like another small canoe but with the lines of the Ranger 15. This small Ranger canoe would be used as a "play boat" where I could try to master a few freestyling strokes. I would build this canoe as light as possible.

The Question: Is it possible to take my existing Ranger plans and copy them at 93% (14/15) for a 14' Ranger or 90% (13.5/14) for a 13.5' Ranger. What are the pitfalls of doing this? I know there are a lot of unknowns about how this canoe would handle. But if a 14' scaled down Ranger handled only 90% as good as the 15', I would be happy.

[Jim Dodd]

Totally possible. I found a good print shop made it so easy and inexpensive !
adjusting the form spacing, and the stems, is accomplished with a Fairing Batten. Simply, the Batten is just a strip, that you would use to build your canoe.
Lay batten on the forms and the stems, and check for irregularities, then adjust spacings, until the batten makes contact.

It's best to use C-clamps on the cleats to the strongback, making it easy to adjust. This is true with setting the forms to the cleats.
I'm fortunate to have a bunch if C-clamps to accomplish this task !

Good Luck ! Let us know how it works !

Jim

[HighPlainsDrifter]

OK Jim. Thanks for the encouragement. I have a feeling that the scaled down Ranger will make a sweet little canoe and one that I can handle alone. My shoulders do not work so good anymore.

My biggest hurdle right now is to find room in my small shop where I also store 2 of my strippers.

[Cruiser]

Another thing to consider is once you drop the length you can also lighten a lot of other stuff on the canoe.

I did the opposite and scaled up a 14' to 15' and took steps to control the weight, it came out at 32 pounds and has several trips, so i feel pretty confident in the construction. Here is the build link, you may find a few things you can use to lighten your build further :

https://www.canoetripping.net/forums/fo ... pper-build


Brian

[HighPlainsDrifter]

Brian
Jim Dodd (on the BWCA.com builder's group) has already led me to your post on the canoetripping web page. I like your engineering approach. If I can find NWC I will use that and try my hand at 3/16 strips with 4 oz glass. I am not sure what "s" glass is. Do you remember where you purchased your 3/16" bead and cove router bit?
Thanks
Joe

[Jim Dodd]

Joe

I get my S-glass from Sweet Composites, An excellent choice as opposed to E-glass. It wets out just like E-glass, but is supposed to be 25% stronger and more resistant to wear. It costs a lot more, but that's the way it is.

http://sweetcomposites.com/index.html

I believe Nick Schade had a link to the 3/32" Radius bits. And he recommended them, as opposed to just using the standard 1/4" bits.

Good luck finding White Cedar. I'd probably settle on WRC from Menards.

Jim

[Cruiser]

HPD,

I used a 1/4" bit set which will give a shallower fit on 3/16" strips. This produces coves that have more robust edges, but fit shallower. This isn't an issue unless you have a "curvy" boat and are using wider strips (as I did in that last build). The 3/16" B&C can be a challenge to locate, largely because the naming conventions with the various manufacturers can be pretty creative, so what you to look for can use any of several names.

I looked and found:
https://www.google.com/search?q=router+ ... 4PHTApQ6fM

https://www.amazon.com/Magnate-6045-Mul ... B000W2XAOY

There are a few more, but this gives you an idea, to the best of my knowledge, there isn't a "Canoe Bit set" in anything but 1/8" radius, but you can still find what you need. Since I have some curves on this design, I will be shifting to 3/32" radius bits for the strips on the new build ... the only reason I used 1/4" bits on the last build is I had them, read a bit that suggested they would work ... so I tried them. they created an issue with tighter curves and since they are shallower, they also don't have the range of motion a properly sized set does IMO, so my advice is to match the B&C to your strips.

I am planning a second version of the last design, this time i will use the leftover strips in the shop ( a mix of NWC and WRC) reworked to 3/16", lengthen to 16'6" and swap to 4 oz S glass, no decks with a design weight of 30 pounds. The NWC is nice but not essential, just another area that can save some weight, even then you have to weigh the pieces to figure the density ... in fact if you are serious about weight you need to weigh the boards to make sure they are in the proper range. Each tree species can produce a wide variety of wood quality and weight, so some NWC weighs more than WRC and is completely outside the Wood Database density range, the same is true of any canoe wood ... so add weight to your wood judgement list.

Brian

[HighPlainsDrifter]

Brian and Jim
Thanks for all of your tips and suggestions. I think I have plenty of ideas to work with. I am sure I will have more as I start into this project. I hauled my strong back into the shop. It is going to be tight, but I think I will have enough elbow room. My big focus right now is to get some wood without taking out a 2nd mortgage on the house. I understand that the price of wood has gone pretty crazy.
Joe

[Cruiser]

HPD,

Not sure what the market is like in your area, but I have found here in Ontario that it is the construction lumber that has gone up. I use mostly rough lumber and the higher end plys, which don't seem to be affected by the shortages.

If you can find rough WRC or NWC you may get around the high prices.


Brian

[HighPlainsDrifter]

Tonight I went through my building journal looking at numbers on my last canoe. The plans for this canoe (Damselfly) came from a wood/canvas builder who copied the lines of Bell Wildfire (except portions near the shear). I adapted the plans to build with strips. I was "weight conscious" while building this canoe. I built with WRC (1/4") and a little bit of redwood (that I salvaged from my old deck).

Specs:
Length: 13' 2"
Weight: 38.5 lbs
Width at gunwale: 28"
Maximum beam: 30"
Width @ 4" water line: 28.5"
Depth midships: 12.5"
Height at ends: 18"

The weights:
Canoe hull after glassing inside and out w/6oz cloth, weave filled and sanded: 27.25lbs
Cherry Inwales: 3.29 lbs
Cherry Outwales: 1.81 lbs
2 decks (ash): 0.625 lbs.
2 handles (black walnut): 0.31 lbs
2 Thwarts (slim black walnut): 1 lb
Seat hangers, bolts, and seat (ash): 2.5 lbs
Detachable carry yoke (ash): 1.1 lbs
Varnish: 0.6 lbs
Total weight: 38.5 lbs

I built a Ranger 15 with WRC, lots of black walnut trim, ash gunwales, walnut seat frames with web covering. What would a scaled down Ranger weigh if I built her at 13' using the same materials and technique as my 15' ? I multiplied all of my weights and lengths for the Ranger 15 by a factor of 0.86 (13/15) and here is what I get............ Trouble. It would be a heavy canoe at 13'. Granted, it would have only 1 seat rather than 2 and other differences. It is also interesting that the "scaled specs" (except weight) are very similiar to the Damselfly.
Length: 13'"
Weight: 47.7 lbs (My Ranger weighs in at 55.5 lbs)
Width at gunwale: 28.8"
Maximum beam: 30.27"
Width @ 4" water line: 28.98"
Depth midships: 11.6"
Height at ends: 20"

My take home message is that it is very easy to put weight on, but tough to take it off.

[Jim Dodd]

My take home message is that it is very easy to put weight on, but tough to take it off.
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So True for canoes as well as Body Weight !

Jim