Hi, everyone.
I'm brand new to this forum and to canoe building. I've recently purchased the plans (still in the mail) for a John Winters Kipawa and now I'm searching for building materials. I'm going to look at some WRC tomorrow for the strips, but I also found what looks like a really nice (to me, but what do I know!) piece of Douglas Fir that I don't think I should pass up. It's just 2x4x10' but with careful cutting (and some splicing - bad idea??) might be good for the gunwales? I'll try and attach a picture of it. So, I see that ash seems to be the standard for gunwales, seats, etc., but I'm wondering, is there any reason I shouldn't (or you wouldn't) use Douglas Fir for the gunwales? Or for anything on a canoe for that matter? I searched this forum for Douglas Fir but nothing came up - that should tell me something. Thanks for your advice.
Tom
Douglas Fir
Re: Douglas Fir
Hi Tom,
DF is a soft wood which isn't typically used as gunnel material, you can use softwoods, but they do dent and damage pretty easy ... which is why ... the exception to that is sitka spruce, but it is pretty hard to get.
Ash is Ok, but it is heavy ... personally I use cherry, it is still strong, but a bit lighter and I like the wood. Skarfing a length of gunnel material together is fine and is quite often done. I like to skarf the rough lumber, then cut the gunnels full length from that.
You can use any wood you want, depending on your circumstance and expectations, but DF is heavy and not particularly strong for that weight ... so on a canoe, the gunnel is going to be taking a good deal of knocking etc , so a softwood will not stand up anywhere near as well as a hardwood. There is no where on a canoe you CAN'T use DF, it is just there are so many better choices, it becomes "Why would you use it?"
You are at the planning stage, so you need to think about how you will use this boat, why you are building it and choose your materials to meet those goals. if weight doesn't matter (i.e. you won't ever have to carry) that opens your material selection somewhat, if it does, then that is planned in from the start. Just an example, on the Kipawa I use 3/8" x 5/8" cherry gunnels, inside and out, instead of 3/4" x 3/4" ash .... that knocks off some 9 pounds to the final weight tally, choosing materials wisely is important.
Anyway, that is my 2cents worth, keep us posted on questions and progress
Brian
DF is a soft wood which isn't typically used as gunnel material, you can use softwoods, but they do dent and damage pretty easy ... which is why ... the exception to that is sitka spruce, but it is pretty hard to get.
Ash is Ok, but it is heavy ... personally I use cherry, it is still strong, but a bit lighter and I like the wood. Skarfing a length of gunnel material together is fine and is quite often done. I like to skarf the rough lumber, then cut the gunnels full length from that.
You can use any wood you want, depending on your circumstance and expectations, but DF is heavy and not particularly strong for that weight ... so on a canoe, the gunnel is going to be taking a good deal of knocking etc , so a softwood will not stand up anywhere near as well as a hardwood. There is no where on a canoe you CAN'T use DF, it is just there are so many better choices, it becomes "Why would you use it?"
You are at the planning stage, so you need to think about how you will use this boat, why you are building it and choose your materials to meet those goals. if weight doesn't matter (i.e. you won't ever have to carry) that opens your material selection somewhat, if it does, then that is planned in from the start. Just an example, on the Kipawa I use 3/8" x 5/8" cherry gunnels, inside and out, instead of 3/4" x 3/4" ash .... that knocks off some 9 pounds to the final weight tally, choosing materials wisely is important.
Anyway, that is my 2cents worth, keep us posted on questions and progress
Brian
Re: Douglas Fir
Ah ! Sorting wood ! I just picked up some Freebie WRC. It will take a lot of splicing, but that is not a problem.
If you are lucky to find a source for WRC, in 1X stock ? That is your best bet, as it is easy to machine into strips.
Get it as long as you can, as wide as you can, and as clear as you can !
When I sort such planks ? I want Flat grained planks. These will give you the strongest, and easiest to machine, and sand !
Here is an illustration of what I refer to as Flat grain.
Good Luck !
Jim
If you are lucky to find a source for WRC, in 1X stock ? That is your best bet, as it is easy to machine into strips.
Get it as long as you can, as wide as you can, and as clear as you can !
When I sort such planks ? I want Flat grained planks. These will give you the strongest, and easiest to machine, and sand !
Here is an illustration of what I refer to as Flat grain.
Good Luck !
Jim
Keep your paddle wet and your seat dry!
Re: Douglas Fir
Thanks for the replies.
Brian,
Thanks for your advice. I hadn't considered dents and dings, don't want that. Yes, weight is a priority for sure. Nine pounds saved is huge when we're talking about a 50+/- pound canoe. I'll start looking for some cherry wood. Also, I've only scratched the surface so far, but looking through this forum I've noticed you've posted a ton of useful information that I just know will come in very handy when my project gets underway...thanks for doing that.
Jim,
Thanks for the helpful tips. That photo makes it so much easier to understand what I should be looking for. I did get some WRC, but it is not ideal dimension wise; it will need to be resawn into 1x stock and spliced into longer lengths. But the first project will be building the strongback. The plans for the Kipawa include a nice strongback design, but I think I'll build the strongback from Canoecraft instead. BTW, I thought your profile photo looked familiar; I just finished reading your testimonial in Canoecraft! Like Brian, thanks for all your good advice on this forum, it's much appreciated.
Tom
Brian,
Thanks for your advice. I hadn't considered dents and dings, don't want that. Yes, weight is a priority for sure. Nine pounds saved is huge when we're talking about a 50+/- pound canoe. I'll start looking for some cherry wood. Also, I've only scratched the surface so far, but looking through this forum I've noticed you've posted a ton of useful information that I just know will come in very handy when my project gets underway...thanks for doing that.
Jim,
Thanks for the helpful tips. That photo makes it so much easier to understand what I should be looking for. I did get some WRC, but it is not ideal dimension wise; it will need to be resawn into 1x stock and spliced into longer lengths. But the first project will be building the strongback. The plans for the Kipawa include a nice strongback design, but I think I'll build the strongback from Canoecraft instead. BTW, I thought your profile photo looked familiar; I just finished reading your testimonial in Canoecraft! Like Brian, thanks for all your good advice on this forum, it's much appreciated.
Tom
Re: Douglas Fir
Tom, if weight is part of your plan, you may find some ideas from my last build, the complete version can be found here:
https://www.canoetripping.net/threads/l ... ost-105054
You may want to skip over the section that deals with copying the hull shape from another canoe though, you already have plans.
Brian
https://www.canoetripping.net/threads/l ... ost-105054
You may want to skip over the section that deals with copying the hull shape from another canoe though, you already have plans.
Brian
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Re: Douglas Fir
I used white oak for the gunwales on my redbird, and it's about 75 pounds(The boat). It weathered the last winter outdoors, and we had a bit of rain here in California. I recently scraped and sanded all that oak and re varnished all of it. I personally would choose a hardwood for the gunwales, decks and exterior stems. The hardwood has been happy to be loaded on the truck rack, and hauled about, without too much complaining.