Hello everybody,
I'm planning to build my first strip canoe, a chestnut prospector 16, and i have a couple of questions about the wood for strips.
1. I have the opportunity to buy 18' long 1" by 10" scotch pine (Pinus sylvestris) lumber, except that it is wet and I would have to dry it. Would you cut it straight into 1/4" by 3/4" strips so that they dry faster or wait until the lumber is dry and then cut them into strips? I'm concerned that if i cut the strips now they will warp and shrink.
2. I may have trouble milling beads and coves into the strips (i don't have a milling machine and the routers are expensive anyway). How hard it would be to just plane and sand the sides of the strips one by one so that they fit perfectly? Maybe someone already built a canoe this way?
Thanks in advance.
Wood for first build
Re: Wood for first build
Hi Kaptur
1. Always work with dry wood. Pine is probably my least favorite. In building a canoe, you put a lot of time and materials, in completing it ! No sense in going with an inferior wood, for strips.
2. I hand beveled the strips, on my first three canoes, before I saw the light of bead and cove ! Hand beveling will teach you a lot though. Mostly " Why didn't I bead and cove ? " Ha !
You can get a set of two bits , for about $20 shipped on Ebay. Bead and coving strips doesn't require much for a router. I built my first router table from a Kitchen sink cut out.
You will want a router for machining your gunnels anyway.
Jim
1. Always work with dry wood. Pine is probably my least favorite. In building a canoe, you put a lot of time and materials, in completing it ! No sense in going with an inferior wood, for strips.
2. I hand beveled the strips, on my first three canoes, before I saw the light of bead and cove ! Hand beveling will teach you a lot though. Mostly " Why didn't I bead and cove ? " Ha !
You can get a set of two bits , for about $20 shipped on Ebay. Bead and coving strips doesn't require much for a router. I built my first router table from a Kitchen sink cut out.
You will want a router for machining your gunnels anyway.
Jim
Keep your paddle wet and your seat dry!
Re: Wood for first build
Cutting the wood into rough strips is a good way to get the wood to dry faster, but woods like pine will tend to warp a lot and they are quite heavy for a canoe. However, if you leave the strips full and then cut to size after they dry, you can get around your shrinkage worry. I realize you are likely getting a good price on your scotch pine, but a good price on something not really suitable to your needs is not really a good deal, I would put in a little extra and get a wood better suited to your needs.
I am with Jim, bead and cove saves a lot of headaches and will likely produce a more consistent quality end result. Also trying to "sand" really isn't the best idea, you can plane the edges to match using a rolling bevel, but that is a "skill set" that you will need to develop and it isn't something that I would try without some practice.
If you feel that a router is too expensive ... maybe take a step back and do a complete budget for the build, so you can see what each step will cost and also what the build will cost. The wood on my last boat was Northern white cedar and I paid $80 for enough to do the canoe, the material for the strongback and forms cost more than that ... as did the fiberglass and resin. So if purchasing the wood for strips and getting the strips made is stretching your budget, you really need to review the overall costs and make sure you have the resources for the build.
Brian
I am with Jim, bead and cove saves a lot of headaches and will likely produce a more consistent quality end result. Also trying to "sand" really isn't the best idea, you can plane the edges to match using a rolling bevel, but that is a "skill set" that you will need to develop and it isn't something that I would try without some practice.
If you feel that a router is too expensive ... maybe take a step back and do a complete budget for the build, so you can see what each step will cost and also what the build will cost. The wood on my last boat was Northern white cedar and I paid $80 for enough to do the canoe, the material for the strongback and forms cost more than that ... as did the fiberglass and resin. So if purchasing the wood for strips and getting the strips made is stretching your budget, you really need to review the overall costs and make sure you have the resources for the build.
Brian
Re: Wood for first build
HI Brian,Cruiser wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:28 pm
If you feel that a router is too expensive ... maybe take a step back and do a complete budget for the build, so you can see what each step will cost and also what the build will cost. The wood on my last boat was Northern white cedar and I paid $80 for enough to do the canoe, the material for the strongback and forms cost more than that ... as did the fiberglass and resin. So if purchasing the wood for strips and getting the strips made is stretching your budget, you really need to review the overall costs and make sure you have the resources for the build.
Sorry to hijack the thread but your post is realtiively recent and based on your signature, we're in the same neck of the wood (I'm near Peterborugh).
Do you have any suggestions about where to find the wood? I've called just about everywhere i can think of but nobody has anytihng. I'm looking for 18' lengths of clean cedar for a 17' canoe. The closest i've been able to find is Monahagn which had 1 piece that was 19 feet long for $450. It's about half of what i need so my wood costs would be almost $1000, the same as buying wood in a kit. I have the time, equipment to mill it and probably even a sutiable space to dry it.
Is it just unrealistic to think that i'll be able to find it? Should i change plans and use shorter strips joining as neccessary? This is my first build so any suggestions are apreciated.
Thanks,
Charles
Re: Wood for first build
Hi Charles,
You are in what i consider the prime area for getting wood, finding those wood sources is definitely one of the biggest challenges IMO, for that first build.
When you consider your build, one of the first things you need to think about, is what you intend to do with the boat. That list of activities will/should govern most of your main build decisions (wood, fiberglass, trim).
The next thing to consider is the aesthetics, this will immediately embroil you in the debate of using staples or not using staples .... this purely a decision of what you see when you look at wood projects. If you are detail oriented, then seeing rows of staples holes at each form is likely going to bother you some, on the other hand some folk just don't see them ... decide what type of person you are and plan accordingly (FYI ... other than the final look, there is no difference).
You are asking about wood and you may wonder why I am going on about this other stuff. While you can successfully build with almost any wood, it doesn't follow that any wood will actually meet your expectations. If you intend to carry this canoe at some point, then you need to think about the weight/density of the woods you have available. If you intend to put the canoe on the wall as decor, then you will want to consider grain patterns and hue and weight really isn't an issue. The main issue you have with finding longer lengths is the standardization of lumber shipping, the containers take 16' pieces, so the mills cut 16' pieces and the main choice for the customer then becomes ..... max 16' , which I suspect is what you have run into. Calling mills/suppliers isn't going to work for longer lengths, you have to go and look. First build, I called a specialty supplier and was told that they stocked 16' max, when I went to "look" at the yard for alternatives, I stumbled on a pile of WRC clear in 18' - 20' lengths, I bought it and talked with the manager who explained they didn't stock those, they came in that way and they separate them out, when they did.
The "go to" wood for canoe building is usually western red cedar, because it has a good strength/weight ratio and is on the lighter side of the weight spectrum, is readily available in longer lengths (tall trees), is easily worked/finished and is widely available.
Not as widely known, but considered the prime canoe wood is northern white cedar (read that as better choice then WRC) and you live in the middle of where a lot of this wood is produced. I source my wood from a small mill near Round Lake on the east side of Algonquin Park, have also used Scouten lumber near you ... from my searches, I think there are a lot of smaller mills near you. If you are stuck on WRC , I have this link to a lumber store in Hamilton, they list long lengths of clear, but I never got around to actual calling them http://www.aitchisonlumber.com/red-cedar/
I wouldn't get too hung up on sourcing full length wood, skarfing is quite viable for building. Most folks will setup a jig for skarfing as they build, personally I like using full length strips, so I skarf the source boards before I cut strips.
Some of the wood selection and joining options are covered in the beginning of my last build, which I documented here:
https://www.canoetripping.net/threads/l ... ld.105054/
you may find some useful information there
Brian
You are in what i consider the prime area for getting wood, finding those wood sources is definitely one of the biggest challenges IMO, for that first build.
When you consider your build, one of the first things you need to think about, is what you intend to do with the boat. That list of activities will/should govern most of your main build decisions (wood, fiberglass, trim).
The next thing to consider is the aesthetics, this will immediately embroil you in the debate of using staples or not using staples .... this purely a decision of what you see when you look at wood projects. If you are detail oriented, then seeing rows of staples holes at each form is likely going to bother you some, on the other hand some folk just don't see them ... decide what type of person you are and plan accordingly (FYI ... other than the final look, there is no difference).
You are asking about wood and you may wonder why I am going on about this other stuff. While you can successfully build with almost any wood, it doesn't follow that any wood will actually meet your expectations. If you intend to carry this canoe at some point, then you need to think about the weight/density of the woods you have available. If you intend to put the canoe on the wall as decor, then you will want to consider grain patterns and hue and weight really isn't an issue. The main issue you have with finding longer lengths is the standardization of lumber shipping, the containers take 16' pieces, so the mills cut 16' pieces and the main choice for the customer then becomes ..... max 16' , which I suspect is what you have run into. Calling mills/suppliers isn't going to work for longer lengths, you have to go and look. First build, I called a specialty supplier and was told that they stocked 16' max, when I went to "look" at the yard for alternatives, I stumbled on a pile of WRC clear in 18' - 20' lengths, I bought it and talked with the manager who explained they didn't stock those, they came in that way and they separate them out, when they did.
The "go to" wood for canoe building is usually western red cedar, because it has a good strength/weight ratio and is on the lighter side of the weight spectrum, is readily available in longer lengths (tall trees), is easily worked/finished and is widely available.
Not as widely known, but considered the prime canoe wood is northern white cedar (read that as better choice then WRC) and you live in the middle of where a lot of this wood is produced. I source my wood from a small mill near Round Lake on the east side of Algonquin Park, have also used Scouten lumber near you ... from my searches, I think there are a lot of smaller mills near you. If you are stuck on WRC , I have this link to a lumber store in Hamilton, they list long lengths of clear, but I never got around to actual calling them http://www.aitchisonlumber.com/red-cedar/
I wouldn't get too hung up on sourcing full length wood, skarfing is quite viable for building. Most folks will setup a jig for skarfing as they build, personally I like using full length strips, so I skarf the source boards before I cut strips.
Some of the wood selection and joining options are covered in the beginning of my last build, which I documented here:
https://www.canoetripping.net/threads/l ... ld.105054/
you may find some useful information there
Brian