Rudder vs. No Rudder

Damooser · Post by **Damooser** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:51 pm

I am a new Kayak builder and I am not sure whether to include a rudder into my Resolute or not. I plan to be mostly paddling in lakes and type I streams, but eventually I'd like to try ocean kayaking off of the west coast. Any help?

Erik, Belgium · Post by **Erik, Belgium** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:53 pm

this topic has been discussed times and times before on http://www.kayakforum.com
You have some who are PRO and others who vote AGAINST.
Try to paddle a few times with and without, and make up your own mind. Most depends on your paddle skills, on the boat's characteristics, and on the worst kind of weather you will be paddling.
A rudder often is NOT necessary on a kayak (nor on a canoe).

Erik, Belgium

Glen Smith · Post by **Glen Smith** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:15 pm

When I built my Resolute, I had never paddled a kayak before. I have found that a rudder was not necessary under any of the conditions I have paddled in, be it lake, river or the Mighty St-Lawrence River. I did however epoxy a block of wood inside the stern in case I ever want to add one.

Doug · Post by **Doug** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:38 pm

After paddling my Endeavour for a year now, without a rudder, I'll never use a rudder again.
I did not install one, because of time & $$$.
The only thing that I can think of that they are useful for is (maybe) tracking.
With paddle / stroke modification you can easily adjust to the tracking.
Without a rudder I can turn on the length of the kayak.
I actually think I can do a 180 degree turn fasted without a rudder than with one.
One less thing to break down.
Paddling with out a rudder does take several hours to get use.

Happy paddling,
Doug

Glen Smith · Post by **Glen Smith** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:40 pm

Doug, a bit off topic here but, do you have a larger picture of your "Avatar"? I can't make out what it is exactly. Must be the old eyeballs!

Doug · Post by **Doug** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 pm

Ya, I know, my eye are the same, I'll work on that.
It's a technological impairment, that I have as well.

It's a cedarstrip "Kipawa" and my camp chair on the north shore of David Lake, Killarney PP.

Doug

Glen Smith · Post by **Glen Smith** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:56 pm

I was pretty sure it was a chair and a canoe. Would you have some better pics of the canoe. You could always email them to me if you can't display them somewhere.

Doug · Post by **Doug** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:06 pm

Glen, there are 3 pictures of my kayak here,
http://www.bearmountainboats.com/gallery_Endeavour.htm
I'll gather some other pictures up and send them to you.

Doug

Glen Smith · Post by **Glen Smith** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:23 pm

Hi Doug, nice looking Endeavour. Sure, send some pics, I like to see what others have built.

Bryan Hansel · Post by **Bryan Hansel** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:59 pm

@Damooser. If you want to sail your kayak ever, you should add a rudder. Sailing kayaks and canoes is a blast. This summer on a long trip, we catamaraned two kayaks together and hooked up a sail. Kicked back and watch the GPS clock us at up to 7 or 8 knots. It was a blast! Plus it was a lot easier than paddling, which was very nice after the close to 40 miles we had already paddled that day.

KenC · Post by **KenC** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 11:45 am

I also have no rudder on my Endeavour. I have been in some conditions (wind & waves directly at my back) that made it difficult to hold my heading in the empty boat. I also had some less-than-perfect tracking one day last summer while fully loaded with camping gear. The fact that I only had that problem one day, while the conditions were similar each day, leads me to believe that the boat was not trimmed properly that day. I might have solved it by repacking the gear.

I also epoxied a block into the stern, in case I ever want to retrofit a rudder. Despite the above, I have no desire to do so just yet.

Doug - have you taken the kayak into the islands south of Killarney Park? Great spot.

Bryan - I'm kind of intrigued by the idea of sailing the kayak. How difficult is it to use the paddle as a leeboard for MINOR directional changes when sailing more or less straight off the wind?

KenC · Post by **KenC** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 11:52 am

Doug - I posted above before looking at your Endeavor pics in the photo gallery. I have a pics that are almost identical, taken south of Killarney last summer. Where were your pics taken?

Bryan Hansel · Post by **Bryan Hansel** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 4:04 pm

@ KenC - Downwind sailing is very easy in a canoe or kayak. For the Boundary Waters, we carry a almost square sail that has two sleeves in it that you can insert a paddle, and then that is held by the bow paddler, the stern paddler rudders. In a kayak, you should be able to use a paddle as a rudder to steer with with a simple downwind sail rig. Then you wouldn't need a rudder.

Denis · Post by **Denis** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:34 pm

In case anyone is building a venture I would suggest it reqiures either a skeg of sorts or a rudder. I built one for my wife and it suits her fine but misbehaves in any sort of a side wind. It wants to turn into the wind which can be very frustrating. I built it anticipating the need to add a rudder at some point but havn't yet. What I did do which has helped a lot is to build a skeg like rudder that I temporarily attached to the stern deck "Red Green Style"

.
It makes the boat behave and my wife is happy with it. Still thinking about whether or not to do the rudder or make a permanent attachment for the stern deck for the fixed rudder or skeg.
I built a Resolute kayak for myself and it tracks very well with no rudder or skeg. Anyone who has paddled it has had no problems with directional stabliity. ie it runs straight

Denis

The Bear Mountain Boat Shop

Rudder vs. No Rudder

Rudder vs. No Rudder

rudder or not???