Seat Help needed

[John E]

Hi my name is John. I'm kinda new to this board, been lurking for a week or so. I am looking for information about making seats, how to locate where to mount them and mounting methods.

I am building in the final stages of construction of a stitch and glue canoe (Free plans available from http://www.boatplans.dk/boatplans/boats ... ype=canoes) If you go to that link I am building the daytripper but also have the plans for the slated seats used in the touring version. Some early construction on the boat can be viewed at: http://www.boat.errington.org

Here it is waiting for the inside joints to be taped.


The problems I am having are due to the plans not indicating how to build the seat mounts or how to figure out how to locate the seats. I wish to be able to use the canoe for solo, tandem, and tandem with a seated passenger. Boat length is 15' 4", beam is 35", 4 chined, flat bottom. I really would prefer to make the slatted seats that are used for the touring canoe but need to figure out how to mount them. It looks like from the pictures that the slatted seats are mounted on regular seat frames and mounts.

Here is what I need to figure out.

1. If I go with regular seats I want to make webbed seats so need basic frame information such as wood dimension and seat area for comfort.

2. I am building inwales (3/8 cedar strips laminated to 3/8 x 3inch stand offs), but not sure they will be strong enough to support my weight. (about 235) and thinking side mounted rails would be stronger, perhaps even a center seat support to take some weight off the rails. These supports should be able to take either a webbed seat or the slatted seat design interchangeably

3. Rear seat position I expect will be fixed position from what I've seen. How high from deck to mount? how far forward to mount? When tandem paddling the forward paddler is expected to be much lighter in most cases.

4. Center seat should be flexable from taking any kind of seat and perhaps a sliding seat mount so I can balance it when solo or with a passeger

5. Forward seat same deal either seat type and sliding mount. Front paddler is mostly expected to be much lighter than rear paddler when paddling tandem.

[Dean in Eureka, CA]

John,
I'm not up to speed on S&G construction, but I think you might be trying to crowd one too many seats in that thing. I would make a concesion and only go with two seats, the third passenger would need to sit on the bottom, although not fun, it would help with stability. I would position the bow seat that could also double as a solo seat , paddling the boat in the other direction. I would take another look at the material choice of the gunnels, like a hardwood. I would hang the seats from the inwale with spacers to get the seats as low as possible.
Sorry I can't be of more help to you, I'm basically answering your question because I see it's been here for a few days and nobody has responded. I don't like to see first time posters left hanging.
BTW Nice bulkheads.

[Guest]

I wouldn't use the height from the gunnels to the seat as a useful measure. A better parameter would be the distance from the floor of the canoe to the top of the seat and adjust the spacers from the gunnel to the seat accordingly. I've measured a variety of canoes and the seat heights vary from 9 1/2" to 11" from the bottom of the canoe. Generally, the lower the seat, the lower your center of gravity and the greater the stability. However, depending on your leg length, a low seat can be hard on the knees or be difficult to get your feet under if you paddle kneeling.

Good Luck!

[Jack in Stoughton]

Hi John,

You will want to use a hardwood for your gunwales. I use ash and they are 3/4" X 3/4" inside and out. You also want a hardwood for your seat frames. My seats are trapezoids and measure 11" front to back and one end is 10" and the other is 14". These dimensions are inside dimensions. The stock for the seats is 3/4" X 1.5". That makes the outside dimension, front to back 14". The front and back pieces should extend well past the edges of the seat proper and be trimmed off when they are mounted. The area you sit on can be woven (like caned) or laced (like snowshoes).

I'm wondering if the plywood frames that go across the boat wil remain when it is finished? They look like they will be in the way. I'd suggest a hardwood thwart in the center spanning the distance between your new hardwood gunwales to replace the existing 3 frames.

I've read the other posts that were posted before mine. Mounting them as low as is comfortable is good. Eliminating the 3rd seat is also good. I found with mine that when I mount the rear seat as far back as I can and still fit it in and the front seat so the front paddler has adequate legroom works OK. When solo simply reverse the canoe and make the stern the bow. This places your weight nearer to the center and it will probably ride OK for you.

Good luck with your project. It looks good so far.

[John E]

Thanks for the input Jack. The plywood frames you inquired about are in fact going to stay as they are, fully epoxied and filleted in place, The is actually 38 inches from the frame to the bulkheads so that should be plenty of leg space even with a deep seat. The frames are a a single 1/4 inch thickness but the uppers on them are laminated to 3/4 inch and actually are quite sturdy possibly stronger than expected dued to the lamination and epoxy.

That beng said I have as choice of wood at my local outlets Poplar, Red Oak, Southern Yellow Pine, White Pine, Birch, and Cedar No Ash. Got a recommendation? Have already gone with Cedar for the wales and just plan on not hanging anything from them like 240 pound people (me) I can still choose one of those to make the seat supports and frames.

I have noticed sliding seat mounts for the front of canoes and could probable manage to make one of those but my big question is how are the seats mounted to the braces/brackets? is it a locking pin arrangement? How about on the stationary seats most seem to have a hidden attachment method to secure the seat to the brace/bracket?

[Jack in Stoughton]

John, go with the red oak for the seat frames. None of the other woods will work in the dimensions I gave you in my previous post.

Please take a look at the plans offered on this web site. All of them have hardwood such as oak for the gunwales for good reason. The gunwales are the parts that provide the strength to hold everything together and in shape. I feel your choice of cedar for the wales is too light.

I can't help with sliding seats. I've never built one. Mine are all fixed and hanging from the hardwood gunwales.

[Glen Smith]

Hi John,

Here is a link to some info on sliding bow seats: http://www.greenval.com/FAQbowsliderseat.html
As Jack said, use hardwood for the gunwales and seats if you want them to last.

[Glen Smith]

Hi John, if you need a center seat once in a while this could be a solution to your problem: http://www.castlecraft.com/seats_canoes.htm

[Myrl Tanton]

Hi John,

Although the book "CAnoe Craft" by the folks that run this site is about building Strip boats, it does cover hanging seats well. It will not cover placement, but provides the input as to variables effecting locations. (If I remember right that is).

In short. use Ash or a Hard wood for your gunwhale, and Hang the seats from them.

I forget if you were glassing inside and out or not... if not, then that is more reason to go for the Hardwood gunwhale, it will strengthen the canoe.

There is an alternate seat securing method. A block of wood is glued/screwed to the sides of the canoe. The seat then is attached to the block. I've never used this method but I know others that have on strip canoes.

Tom's site should help.
http://tomangelakis.tripod.com/Cedarstrip.htm

specifically:
http://tomangelakis.tripod.com/Seats.htm (how to build seats)
http://tomangelakis.tripod.com/Finished.htm (picture shows seats attached to side, not hanging)

I'm pretty sure Tom discusses the seat attachement at some point. If I recall during the discussion on weight (choosing the design). However It's been a while since I've been through is site... and I just got in to find the links for you.

good luck.

Myrl

[John E]

Well after much thought and consideration I decided to scrap the cedar wales that I had almost had epoxied to the hull. I then went and purchased two planks of Red Oak turned one into strips and blocks for the wales and the other into 3/4" x 1.5" strips for the seat frames. This left me with a nice 1"x3/4" strip I can use for rails for a front Sliding seat.

Got the sculper blocks glued on the inwales tonight and should start inwale installation tommorrow.

Note: I don't have a planner but found that I could used my disk sander to do a great surfacing job on the strips. I have a Shop Smith, but this should still work for others with a jig. Set up the fence just a bit closer to the sanding disk than the existing wood dimension. Then turn on the sander and push the strip through between the fence and the sanding disk. Use a push stick to get he last of the strip through or if you have a person catching for you they could pull it through the las few inches.

I almost bought a planner when I bought the wood just because my jointer would not handle the strips properly because they are too skinnyfor it. This caused all sorts of uneveness and thickness problems with the cedar strips. The sanding disk technique removed all blade marks, made all strips the same thickness, and left a very smooth face with ease and speed.