Solo fiberglassing

Stencil · Post by **Stencil** » Sat May 03, 2008 10:01 am

Hello All,
I am at the fiberglassing stage and have been delaying the inevitable. It looks like I will have to do this on my own and would appreciate any tips you might have to facilitate the process. I can regulate the heat in my shop and am using West Systems 105/207.
Thanks
S

canoeblderinmt · Post by **canoeblderinmt** » Sat May 03, 2008 11:19 am

Work FAST

sluggo · Post by **sluggo** » Sat May 03, 2008 2:57 pm

My first thought is to double check that you want to use the epoxy you have. I'd ask someone that has used both West and Silvertip slow or Mas slow to see how they compare. Nothing will help you more than having the slowest curing, thinnest epoxy. If you already sunk your money into West and it isn't as good (maybe it's even better), take a good look and decide if you have enough for the boat. If you're not sure, and you'll think you'll need to buy more then give that some thought. Other things:
1. keep your shop warm, 25C. In my experience the warmer temp GREATLY aids in the epoxy's ability to spread and wet out. This outweighs any disadvantage that higher temps may have in faster curing
2 keep 4 pairs of gloves handy
3. use a roller. Despite what CanoeCraft says, rollers work for the wet out and they work fast
4. have 4 rollers ready but you may only use 2.
5. get your cloth as smooth as possible prior to the epoxy and this will allow you to concentrate on spreading epoxy and not fixing cloth...
6. pour your epoxy mix into a paint tray as soon as you can to help dissipate the heat and slow down curing.

s

Stencil · Post by **Stencil** » Sat May 03, 2008 3:52 pm

Thanks for the info. As a matter of fact I have bought the epoxy but I could return it and the supplier sent a bunch of info regarding Silvertip and seemed to be pushing it over West. My big concern is the wet edge. As I jump back and forth between wet out and squeegeeing do I need to be greatly concerned about the wet edge setting up? Also you mention rollers. Standard paint rollers? Short nap?
S

sluggo · Post by **sluggo** » Sat May 03, 2008 4:23 pm

I think everyone uses the yellow 1/8" short nap rollers, cut narrower for 3" or 4" roller. I buy them from Rona or fiberglass shop (made by West).

BTW I don't know if your West epoxy is better or worse than Silvertip. I think Silvertip might be the best but I've never used the West.

As for wet edge, I've never had a problem with that really. I always done one half of the boat at time, squeegeed, then did the other half. I've never had a situation where the glass/epoxy was hardening before I got to the other side. When I've epoxied, I would say that my critical step was making sure I use the squeegee in time before it was too difficult to squeegee. I guess each person's critical step will depend upon their specific routine.

roger bebee · Post by **roger bebee** » Sat May 03, 2008 5:58 pm

I may well be in the same situation as stencil when I get to that stage only without a heated shop . Have never done any epoxy work before but have read about raka on the forum and it seems to meet the crytereia that sluggo discribes . I' m certianly not knocking west but just concerned it may be to thick and fast for me . Can anyone comment on raka pertaining to stencils question

canoeblderinmt · Post by **canoeblderinmt** » Sun May 04, 2008 7:57 am

Both of my canoes were epoxied with Raka, one with a friend to mix and one (a 20 footer) solo. It is indeed thin, penetrates well, and gave me a long work time in my semi-heated shop. It cured even though the temps were in the 50's and below. I only use a squeegee, having tried rollers and found them not to my liking. I think I had the wrong kind as they left BEAUCOUP nap in the epoxy. I had plenty of time by myself using the squeegee. I'm sold on Raka.

Greg

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Stencil · Post by **Stencil** » Sun May 04, 2008 8:49 am

Yeah the open time with the Silvertip is much longer than the West. Sluggo, I am building the same boat as you did how much epoxy resin/hardener did you need?
S

Stencil · Post by **Stencil** » Sun May 04, 2008 9:02 am

By the way. What is Raka? I checked and Sivertip is System 3.

sluggo · Post by **sluggo** » Sun May 04, 2008 11:51 am

Stencil wrote:Yeah the open time with the Silvertip is much longer than the West. Sluggo, I am building the same boat as you did how much epoxy resin/hardener did you need?
S

I meant to write this down but I forgot. Let me think out loud here. 3 fill coats, 6 batches per fill, roughly 100g resin per batch, that's probably 2litres of resin. wetout was probably 8 batches, so that's another litre. Probably won't do fill coats on the inside I'm probably looking at a minimum of 4litres. But then I'm sure I'll use more on small filler batches and stuff. I'll probably put on another fill coat on the outside.

BTW, I think Silvertip is very thin but that doesn't help a lot if your shop is cool. Silvertip at 15C is a heck of a lot different than Silvertip at 25C.

s.

RonMc1954 · Post by **RonMc1954** » Sun May 04, 2008 12:41 pm

Stencil wrote:By the way. What is Raka? I checked and Sivertip is System 3.

Raka is a brand name. That's all I have used on my 3 boats all of which I epoxied by my self, reasonably price to.

http://www.raka.com

Ron

Kudzu · Post by **Kudzu** » Sun May 04, 2008 5:34 pm

I second Raka. It's thinner than I remember West being. But it was YEARS ago I built a boat with West Systems.

I too prefer the plastic squeegees, Especially with Raka since it is thin. I like it because I move the epoxy around and force it in the weave.

Let me make a suggestion. Before starting on your boat, try it on something else. Mix up a small bath and coat a piece of scrap plywood or something. Assuming this is your first time and you have no one to help/teach you. It's not hard, probably easier than your expecting. But better to have some practice on something that doesn't matter. And you can try a squeegee and a roller and see what works best for you.

cecbell · Post by **cecbell** » Sun May 04, 2008 7:09 pm

I've used only WEST 105/207 (sometimes 206) on my canoes (only 3 so far) and have had no problem with the wet edge setting up. I squeegee the wetout coat and roller the rest. My shop isn't heated but I prefer to have the temp. at least above 70F and better if it's around 80. I once spoke to a Gougeon Bros. tech rep and asked him how large a boat he felt he could manage solo. He said about 30 ft. That was using the fast 205 hardener which he prefered because it allowed him to work up to speed--less waiting around for cure times. He obviously was experienced at it and in a professional environment where time is money. He did say that when the air temp. got hot, you really needed to be focused with that hardner. As someone already mentioned, since you're on the epoxy clock once you start, be sure to have everything you'll need at hand and your agenda well in mind. Don't sweat it. I like the WEST 207 hardener speed because it fits my own work tempo. While I'm interested in trying other epoxies, it would be for other properties, not the curing times.

Stencil · Post by **Stencil** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:25 am

Thanks for the input. I am going to ruminate on this for a while.
S

sel4sel4 · Post by **sel4sel4** » Mon May 05, 2008 10:23 am

Hi,
I glassed the outside of my 17'9 freedom alone using RAKA.
The only thing I would add to what has already been said is that from now on I will be doing an epoxy pre-coat prior to laying the glass.

The reason is that I see colour change demarcations between the batches of epoxy on the boat. I figure these are because I had to stop spreading the epoxy to mix new batches of resin.

So either you work really really fast or you prepare a larger batch and do a quick pre-coat prior to wetting out the glass. Also, I found that as a first timer it was really stressful to do alone. In the future, I will enlist the help of someone, even if only to mix the epoxy batches.

I don't believe that the demarcations have ruined my boat... but I was aiming for perfect, and well now its not gonna be perfect.

cheers

Martin
Gatineau, QC