A friend wants to use my Hiawatha formers to make a boat, but he requires more volume. Has anyone done this by increasing the freeboard with a few more strips. My concerns are stability. overall handling and the visual effects.
Any input would be appreciated.
Richard
Increasing freeboard
It shouldn't be a problem affecting performace wrt hydrodynamics, since the hull shape below the water line won't change. Windage, the force of the wind affecting the canoe, will increase as the depth increases, especially if the canoe is lightly loaded and riding high in the water.
Steve Killing writes that the Hiawatha was designed for sitting paddlers, and that may account for the lower sides... there may be less height to the gunwales to interefere with paddles (maybe less gunwale banging). You might want to email SK for more info on this.
It's a high-ended canoe with a sharp upturn in the gunwales near the stems rather than a more gradual curve seen in other canoes (eg. Huron). Increasing the depth at the center stations and leaving the stem heights unchanged would provide a nicely-curving sheerline with a batten. And this would reduce windage at the ends as well.
Or you could increase depth of all stations and stems with additional strips to preserve the high-ended look.
If the canoe becomes too deep (usually canoes aren't deeper amidships than 15 inches), you can always cut down the sheer to a lower depth, and restore the hull back to it's original shape.
Steve Killing writes that the Hiawatha was designed for sitting paddlers, and that may account for the lower sides... there may be less height to the gunwales to interefere with paddles (maybe less gunwale banging). You might want to email SK for more info on this.
It's a high-ended canoe with a sharp upturn in the gunwales near the stems rather than a more gradual curve seen in other canoes (eg. Huron). Increasing the depth at the center stations and leaving the stem heights unchanged would provide a nicely-curving sheerline with a batten. And this would reduce windage at the ends as well.
Or you could increase depth of all stations and stems with additional strips to preserve the high-ended look.
If the canoe becomes too deep (usually canoes aren't deeper amidships than 15 inches), you can always cut down the sheer to a lower depth, and restore the hull back to it's original shape.
hi Richard,
then this means: more displacement
that is: deeper immersed, or larger dimensions underwater
and both are not achieved by increasing the freeboard
eh, "deeper immersed" decreases the freeboard
yes, you can compensate that by adding some strips
but this will not increase the carrying capacity
"deeper immersed" does affect stability (and hydrodynamics)
( and Hiawatha is a "light displacement" design
with stability "that requires skill and experience" to begin with )
adding some strips will have an effect on the sheer, thus on the 'looks'
and yes, that can be worked out, as Rick explains
another approach could be: larger dimensions underwater
which means: another design
or, using the existing forms is worth considering
may be for an enlarged Hiawatha?
increasing the spacing between forms will get you some extra length, and a little extra capacity
and it does affect handling
what is your/his goal? what is the capacity (displacement) you are aiming for?
(i know, this is opinion, not facts or experience :-)
happy newyear,
Ben
does that mean: more carrying capacity? ( more people and gear ? )but he requires more volume
then this means: more displacement
that is: deeper immersed, or larger dimensions underwater
and both are not achieved by increasing the freeboard
eh, "deeper immersed" decreases the freeboard
yes, you can compensate that by adding some strips
but this will not increase the carrying capacity
"deeper immersed" does affect stability (and hydrodynamics)
( and Hiawatha is a "light displacement" design
with stability "that requires skill and experience" to begin with )
adding some strips will have an effect on the sheer, thus on the 'looks'
and yes, that can be worked out, as Rick explains
another approach could be: larger dimensions underwater
which means: another design
or, using the existing forms is worth considering
may be for an enlarged Hiawatha?
increasing the spacing between forms will get you some extra length, and a little extra capacity
and it does affect handling
what is your/his goal? what is the capacity (displacement) you are aiming for?
(i know, this is opinion, not facts or experience :-)
happy newyear,
Ben
Hi Ben,
Thanks for your thoughts. This boat will not be for me ,I am very happy paddling my Hiawatha solo, and think it is a great design. The friend who wants to use my forms is looking for greater carrying capacity. He will have to weigh up the pros and cons from these posts and make his decision.
Happy New Year.
Richard
Thanks for your thoughts. This boat will not be for me ,I am very happy paddling my Hiawatha solo, and think it is a great design. The friend who wants to use my forms is looking for greater carrying capacity. He will have to weigh up the pros and cons from these posts and make his decision.
Happy New Year.
Richard
Capacity
Perhaps your friend should consider a Prospector style boat which would give him lots of capacity
here is a link he can pursue
http://www.outdoorplace.org/paddling/Pr ... ector1.htm
here is a link he can pursue
http://www.outdoorplace.org/paddling/Pr ... ector1.htm
Thanks everyone for your input.
Nice Prospector Dennis. I built a Peterborough eight years ago, but unfortunately I canibalized the forms to make the Hiawatha.
If this friend of mine does not want to give the time to make new forms then I think a combination of extra length and a few more strips for added freeboard will be the answer.
Richard
Nice Prospector Dennis. I built a Peterborough eight years ago, but unfortunately I canibalized the forms to make the Hiawatha.
If this friend of mine does not want to give the time to make new forms then I think a combination of extra length and a few more strips for added freeboard will be the answer.
Richard
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I don't want to be rude but availability of forms is a bad reason to build the wrong canoe. Taking the extra time to cut the right forms to allow him to build the right canoe makes more sense. I'd hate to have a canoe for decades that I regret building because I took a short cut right in the beginning. In the grand scheme of things, the time to cut forms is pretty insignificant.
Just my opinion.
Just my opinion.