Ok, all you guys posting these museum pieces on these forms its time for you to sit down and write a book. The new book should completely cover staple-less construction with jig design, straps and clamps needed,.
The new book should better go over the external stem installation process or suggest that the builder size the external stem to 1.25" wide or better yet offer a new design where a stem can be installed without a mortice.
What else belongs in the new book?
JimND could write an chapter on oils and varnishes.
Others could write a chapter on epoxy application
It's Time We wrote a new Book
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KARKAUAI
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 3:06 pm
- Location: Hickory, NC / Princeville, Kauai, HI
- Contact:
Great idea, It's-from-Tampa, (could we have a first name, anyway?)
Somebody with the time and inclination could scour the forum (and others) and compile the information into a really great resource. All the pics and explanations are out there already...all that's needed is someone to bring them together into one place and organize and edit them. Glen? Todd? Rob? Chip?....I'll be working on another canoe.
Somebody with the time and inclination could scour the forum (and others) and compile the information into a really great resource. All the pics and explanations are out there already...all that's needed is someone to bring them together into one place and organize and edit them. Glen? Todd? Rob? Chip?....I'll be working on another canoe.
A hui ho,
Kent
Kent
I like the idea of a new book. I will certainly purchase one. I have a suggestion for a chapter. Names.....the origin of the names assigned to Bear Mountain Boats. I also have a suggestion for an author or co-writer. I make a motion to nominate KARKAUAI. While he is on vacation in Kauai he can dig up all the great information, edit those little cuss words we let slip once in a while and send it to the publishing house as soon as he gets back. Would anyone like to second this motion?
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KARKAUAI
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 3:06 pm
- Location: Hickory, NC / Princeville, Kauai, HI
- Contact:
MT, surely you understand that this is NOT a post which can be appointed or voted on. I'm here in the sunshine, paddling, golfing, hiking......want me to go on? You poor souls who are in the dead of Winter should be happy to find a new project take up some time in the cold short days and long dark nights. Besides, I've only built one canoe and never had it in the water to test it's seaworthiness...don't think I qualify to sort the wheat from the chaff (and you must admit, there's a lot of chaff to go thru). After repairs, maybe I can contribute to that chapter.
A hui ho,
Kent
Kent
You´re surely right !
I love "Canoecraft" much, but I agree in writing a new book. I had some trouble because of some unclear passages regarding installation of the outerstems and at last applying the epoxy coat. It not went out absolutliy fine because I used the squeezee in a too flat angle, doing this is really stressed in the German translation of the book.As I´m am a first time builder a did exactly what canoecraft said - it was wrong. It was quite interessting to see a photo on another page of the book which shows the use of the squeezee in a much different angle - but of course I just noticed it AFTER making my mistakes...
Best wishes
Chris
__________________________________
Everything will be different with the building of the next boat :eyebrows
Best wishes
Chris
__________________________________
Everything will be different with the building of the next boat :eyebrows
---------------------------------------
www.natur-im-sucher.com
www.natur-im-sucher.com
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John Michne
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 7:36 am
- Location: Clifton Park, NY
- Contact:
Getting a book from concept to coffee table is no trivial task. I can speak from experience – let me explain. About four years ago, another builder and myself had this idea to write a book detailing how we built our reproduction Adirondack guideboats. We had only met over the Internet, but we agreed to join forces, and started writing. We even had a publisher lined up. As I built a boat, I took many pictures with my then state-of-the-art digital camera. I finished the boat, we finished the writing in about a year and a half, and gave a copy of the manuscript to the publisher. He was excited about the project, and started to do some very preliminary work.
Then the problems began. It seems that early digital cameras had nowhere near the resolution needed for publication. I then bought a new state-of-the-art $1000 digital camera, one very capable of high-resolution publication quality pictures. I built another boat, just to be able to get new high quality pictures. That boat was long done, but by then, the publisher wanted $10,000 up front to cover publication costs. The royalties they wanted to pay us would have gotten us a super-size meal at McDonald’s. We said “No, thanks” and went off to find another publisher. While searching, we looked into self-publishing. That’s where you do all the editing and layout yourself, give it to a printer, and he prints you up a bunch of books and you take it from there. No advertising, distribution, copywriting, and all that stuff that a real book publisher does. We had over 250 digital pictures – a self-publisher told us he could only handle 25 pictures.
After many tries and rejections (“Nice book, fellows, but the audience is too narrow…”), we found a publisher who was excited about the project, and took it on. We signed a contract last June. We are just now finishing up working with the publisher on editing the text. Layout is next, then printing, and finally, it will be released in April or May.
Our royalties will be a bit better than the first publisher, but even if we sell a ton of books, the payback won’t pay for my new camera.
Compiling stuff from different sources also has problems. Who is the chief editor, since there is no single author? You may have to get written releases from anyone who is pictured. Speaking of pictures, snap shots won’t work – high quality prints or high-resolution digital pictures only, and unless you are prepared to cough up an awful lot of money up front, forget color pictures – black and white only.
As you are probably well aware, there are as many ways to build a boat as there are builders. How do you handle all the various techniques, when some even directly contradict others? Who is right? If you still want to write a book, you will need a conceptual outline and some actual samples of the text, like at least a few chapters. Then you approach publishers one at a time. When you are lucky enough to get an OK, you will sign a contract that says you will deliver a manuscript by a certain date. Then the work begins, and it will be a lot of work.
Finding the information, actually getting it, editing it, assembling it, etc. will take a lot of time. All costs will be yours, and will not be reimbursed. Who will get the royalties? What happens if you default on the contract? Suppose the publisher doesn’t like what you have assembled?
On this forum and elsewhere, many builders think of CanoeCraft as a bible. In many ways it is - that's where I learned when I built my first, and there is enough good information in it for just about anyone to build a canoe. It is not the only book on the subject out there, though. I have listed many of the more popular ones on my web site in the Links and Literature section.
A new book would have to plow new ground. It could not be a rehash of those books, or it would not be well received. For example, my forthcoming book details the strip building of an Adirondack guideboat. There are no other "how to" books out there that do the same, so it is something new. The only book on the subject is The Adirondack Guide-Boat, by Kenneth and Helen Durant. This is mostly historical in nature, and describes how these classics were originally built from sawn spruce stump ribs and thin pine planking. Our book is new, in that we describe how to make and use laminated spruce ribs rather than digging up a spruce stump, and fiberglassed cedar strips rather than the thin lapped pine planks that were held to the ribs by (literally) 2,000 screws and 4,000 clinched copper tacks.
I agree that there are some aspects of canoe building that can be confusing, even daunting, that are not detailed sufficiently in any of the books. One often sees mention of fitting the outer stem. Once the procedure is understood, though, it is really simple. Several builders have described it with at least some small measure of success, myself included. In order to do a proper job of explaining, it would take several close-up pictures of the process, along with a well-written description. I quit using that type of stem back before I got any kind of digital camera, so I don't have any pictures of it.
There are other areas that I would like to write about for my web site, but I would have to build another canoe just to get the pictures. For example, there are many strongback designs out there. I use a simple inexpensive box beam design and have built six boats on it. It must and can be accurately built, and I could show how to do it simply and accurately, with pictures. I just don't need another strongback. Then there is cutting the forms. I screw two sheets of plywood together and cut the forms for both ends of the boat at the same time, leaving just a little bit to be removed by a disk sander. I get two identical forms that way, with less work. To show it, I would have to build another canoe, which I also don't need.
Stapless construction is another area that has about as many methods as there builders doing it. There are other things, like the almost fanatical obsession of reducing weight, or hurrying the project to be on some sort of self-imposed schedule, or worrying about "strength". I could go on... Trying to put together a book that incorporates the ideas of several builders would be sure to generate controversy, the likes of which has yet to be seen on any forum. I tried to put a lot of stuff on my web site that would help first time builders avoid some pitfalls. I had considered doing a canoe book, but as I said, there are enough of them out there already. A book like you suggest would be possible, but it would be a really tough and touchy job.
Sorry to run on like this, but once I get going, it's hard to stop.
John
Then the problems began. It seems that early digital cameras had nowhere near the resolution needed for publication. I then bought a new state-of-the-art $1000 digital camera, one very capable of high-resolution publication quality pictures. I built another boat, just to be able to get new high quality pictures. That boat was long done, but by then, the publisher wanted $10,000 up front to cover publication costs. The royalties they wanted to pay us would have gotten us a super-size meal at McDonald’s. We said “No, thanks” and went off to find another publisher. While searching, we looked into self-publishing. That’s where you do all the editing and layout yourself, give it to a printer, and he prints you up a bunch of books and you take it from there. No advertising, distribution, copywriting, and all that stuff that a real book publisher does. We had over 250 digital pictures – a self-publisher told us he could only handle 25 pictures.
After many tries and rejections (“Nice book, fellows, but the audience is too narrow…”), we found a publisher who was excited about the project, and took it on. We signed a contract last June. We are just now finishing up working with the publisher on editing the text. Layout is next, then printing, and finally, it will be released in April or May.
Our royalties will be a bit better than the first publisher, but even if we sell a ton of books, the payback won’t pay for my new camera.
Compiling stuff from different sources also has problems. Who is the chief editor, since there is no single author? You may have to get written releases from anyone who is pictured. Speaking of pictures, snap shots won’t work – high quality prints or high-resolution digital pictures only, and unless you are prepared to cough up an awful lot of money up front, forget color pictures – black and white only.
As you are probably well aware, there are as many ways to build a boat as there are builders. How do you handle all the various techniques, when some even directly contradict others? Who is right? If you still want to write a book, you will need a conceptual outline and some actual samples of the text, like at least a few chapters. Then you approach publishers one at a time. When you are lucky enough to get an OK, you will sign a contract that says you will deliver a manuscript by a certain date. Then the work begins, and it will be a lot of work.
Finding the information, actually getting it, editing it, assembling it, etc. will take a lot of time. All costs will be yours, and will not be reimbursed. Who will get the royalties? What happens if you default on the contract? Suppose the publisher doesn’t like what you have assembled?
On this forum and elsewhere, many builders think of CanoeCraft as a bible. In many ways it is - that's where I learned when I built my first, and there is enough good information in it for just about anyone to build a canoe. It is not the only book on the subject out there, though. I have listed many of the more popular ones on my web site in the Links and Literature section.
A new book would have to plow new ground. It could not be a rehash of those books, or it would not be well received. For example, my forthcoming book details the strip building of an Adirondack guideboat. There are no other "how to" books out there that do the same, so it is something new. The only book on the subject is The Adirondack Guide-Boat, by Kenneth and Helen Durant. This is mostly historical in nature, and describes how these classics were originally built from sawn spruce stump ribs and thin pine planking. Our book is new, in that we describe how to make and use laminated spruce ribs rather than digging up a spruce stump, and fiberglassed cedar strips rather than the thin lapped pine planks that were held to the ribs by (literally) 2,000 screws and 4,000 clinched copper tacks.
I agree that there are some aspects of canoe building that can be confusing, even daunting, that are not detailed sufficiently in any of the books. One often sees mention of fitting the outer stem. Once the procedure is understood, though, it is really simple. Several builders have described it with at least some small measure of success, myself included. In order to do a proper job of explaining, it would take several close-up pictures of the process, along with a well-written description. I quit using that type of stem back before I got any kind of digital camera, so I don't have any pictures of it.
There are other areas that I would like to write about for my web site, but I would have to build another canoe just to get the pictures. For example, there are many strongback designs out there. I use a simple inexpensive box beam design and have built six boats on it. It must and can be accurately built, and I could show how to do it simply and accurately, with pictures. I just don't need another strongback. Then there is cutting the forms. I screw two sheets of plywood together and cut the forms for both ends of the boat at the same time, leaving just a little bit to be removed by a disk sander. I get two identical forms that way, with less work. To show it, I would have to build another canoe, which I also don't need.
Stapless construction is another area that has about as many methods as there builders doing it. There are other things, like the almost fanatical obsession of reducing weight, or hurrying the project to be on some sort of self-imposed schedule, or worrying about "strength". I could go on... Trying to put together a book that incorporates the ideas of several builders would be sure to generate controversy, the likes of which has yet to be seen on any forum. I tried to put a lot of stuff on my web site that would help first time builders avoid some pitfalls. I had considered doing a canoe book, but as I said, there are enough of them out there already. A book like you suggest would be possible, but it would be a really tough and touchy job.
Sorry to run on like this, but once I get going, it's hard to stop.
John
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Juneaudave
- Posts: 522
- Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 12:42 pm
- Location: Juneau, Alaska
- Contact:
Thanks for the reply John.
Having kicked this topic around in my head the last couple of days. As well as re-reading some up coming constrution points in Canoe Craft and the Gilpatrick books there seems to be a trade-off.
Do you write a book for a larger audience in that many techniques are supported with interesting text on the reasons behind the techniques and the history and options of similar techniques? This is almost like a transcribed lecture and makes for better reading. For someone who is just toying with the idea of building a boat this book would interest him.
The second style is a more technical breakdown of the construction with sequenced steps and technical drawings for every step. This would be more useful for the builder but less interesting to read.
George
Having kicked this topic around in my head the last couple of days. As well as re-reading some up coming constrution points in Canoe Craft and the Gilpatrick books there seems to be a trade-off.
Do you write a book for a larger audience in that many techniques are supported with interesting text on the reasons behind the techniques and the history and options of similar techniques? This is almost like a transcribed lecture and makes for better reading. For someone who is just toying with the idea of building a boat this book would interest him.
The second style is a more technical breakdown of the construction with sequenced steps and technical drawings for every step. This would be more useful for the builder but less interesting to read.
George
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KARKAUAI
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 3:06 pm
- Location: Hickory, NC / Princeville, Kauai, HI
- Contact:
Mahalo for the extensive reply, John...I knew I didn't want to be in charge of this project. Perhaps a simpler solution would be to have individuals compile some of the info on this and other forums on some of the more difficult to understand aspects of building strippers and more controversial subjects that seem to keep cropping up, and to see if Ted would be willing to utilize some of his cyber-space to put them together in one place. Future postings which add something new could easily be added to the compilation on any particular subject. It would be easy to refer ?'s to a page with all known answers on a given subject, but it would probably cut down on some of the fun banter that goes on, too, and that would be a downer. Hmmm, maybe it would leave MORE time for banter. I'd be willing to take on a subject and try to compile everything I can find, but don't really have enough experience building (yet) to feel like much of an expert (again, the wheat and chaff thing). This whole project could get a lot of BMB forum members working together for the common good, might be fun.
A hui ho,
Kent
Kent
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Bayport_Bob
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:03 pm
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canoebuildinggolfer
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:24 am
Just my 2c's worth.....I would not have built a wood strip canoe without this forum...I've had the canoe in the water 3 times...still doing "trials"....and every time had people ask me if I built it, where did I get the plans etc. ....the first thing I say to them is the 'internet' and tell them about this forum....Ted's book comes next, and ...I know I live in Australia and we are a backwater nation but there is no better way of 'common knowledge' of canoe construction than this forum...as a 1st time builder the forum and Canoecraft are hard to go past....TC
Text books and other Reference Materials.
; I just went through this posting, saw some interesting ideas. I came to this conclusion: Why not just take a 3" Binder, add tabs and label them; mold, strips, gluing, epoxy, etc and do what I have done for the better part of the last year. Print the articles and responses, staple them and add them to the book. I have quite a collection and I refer to them regularly. I am building my first stripper, staple-less and this has really helped me. I've picked up other articles and related brochures and keep them in my notebook.
Also while I am waiting for the glue to dry it gives me some time to stop and refresh these ideas. I don't have the energy each and every day to just switch from gluing strips to carving thwarts, etc.
As several said, This forum is a great resource, full of good ideas and opinions. Keep them coming!!!
If there is a new book coming out I hope it is one of just pictures of the Canoes built by the contributers to this Forum. I'd buy two.
