To staple or not???

davidb54321 · Post by **davidb54321** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 2:06 pm

Hi, I am about to begin stripping my first canoe, a 16' Prospector. I am leaning more toward stapleless construction and have a question. How do you keep the strips in contact with the station molds AFTER you move the jigs upward? I realize the jigs will hold 3 to 4 strips at a time as the glue sets, but what about those below the jig? Is this a big problem? I have been putting a lot of time into ripping and routing some really good red cedar and don't want to fill it with extra holes if I can help it.

Thanks, David

mtpocket · Post by **mtpocket** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 2:52 pm

David,

Go to the Project Directory, select Redbird, then scroll down to see the solution that Dean came up with. I did the same basic thing on my canoe and it was very easy.

Doug · Post by **Doug** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:03 pm

Not

This may be of interest to you,
http://www.greenval.com/FAQnostaples.html
Green Valley's "Builders Notes" are good reading.
Stripping without staples takes a little longer, but in my mind, well worth it.

How do you keep the strips in contact with the station molds AFTER you move the jigs upward?
I took a piece of scrap, a 2" strip piece, glued the 3/4" end to the hull, then screwed the piece (of per drilled scrap) to the mold. When finished unscrew the scrap and break it off the hull and sand.

All the best,
Doug

Post by **Patricks Dad** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:48 pm

We used a stapleless method on our canoe. We didn't have a problem with the hull coming away from the forms (by any more than ~1/8") so we didn't bother with gluing extra blocks to the inside of the hull to hold it to the forms. I kept worrying that it was going to pull away in some places so we kept a close eye on it but never had to resort to any tricks. I do think the approach referenced by Dean and others makes sense and well worth the effort if needed if you want to avoid staples.

We stapled the first strip to the forms to get ourselves moving but none thereafter. Looking at those few staple holes on the first strip (which will be under the gunwales), made me glad we went stapleless. But, at the end of the day it's really a personal preference. The holes certainly don't detract from the strength of the hull and in some eyes add character.

In general you can strip faster using staples however.

davidb54321 · Post by **davidb54321** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:25 pm

Thanks for the input! I will check out the solution Dean used, and have already looked at the other site. I have watched Randy and Patricks work progress, and if you guy's are happy with the results, I will probably give it a try.

David

Glen Smith · Post by **Glen Smith** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:12 pm

To keep the strips against the molds while building without staples, there must be as many methods as builders. Blocks glued to the hull and screwed to the molds is one method but it could cause some tear-out when removing the blocks. An occasional drop of hot-glue can also be put to use but this can also cause tear-out when removed. Applying masking tape to the mold edges then using a drop of wood glue every five or six strips holds fairly well but then you will have glue blobs and bits of masking tape to sand off the interior.

Web straps are good but if you strip with the cove up, you will have to protect the cove, possibly with lengths of dowels. One builder has used sash cord wrapped around the strips from bow to stern. Another builder has used fishing line which "hooked" a lot of interest here a few months ago.

If you do a search on "staple-less building" you will probably find quite a few ideas.

Its Me · Post by **Its Me** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:08 pm

I just finished the hull on my Redbird useing staple-less construction. Glenn is right straps and clamps are essential to staple-less construction. Actually I found the cheap straps with a spring loaded bite as good as the ratchet clamps. Dowls 1/4" in diameter were used to protect the cove. But all that stuff worked its-self out.

Although the bead and cove method has been standardized staple-less construction has not. The leading method appears to be, c-clamps and a wooden U or L shaped bracket. In years to come Noah Marine or Bear Mountain Boat well sell ready made wooden brackets but until that time comes you will need to make your own. This is no samll task as you will need four per mold.

A whole new post can be devoted to the dimensions of brackets used in staple- less construction. The actual construction of the staple-less hull was not hard. The figuring out the dimension of the bracket and buying all the 3" clamps was a chalenge.

KenC · Post by **KenC** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:41 am

This is no samll task as you will need four per mold.

Why four? I used two.

In response to davidb's original question, I used an occasional (every 4th or 5th strip) bead of hot-glue to hold the strips down against the molds. As glen pointed out, this method isn't without its downsides, but it got the job done with minimal effort.

patrick · Post by **patrick** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:31 pm

One more thing about using the stapleless process. We used a lot of strapping tape. Most of the time, we used the clamping jig thingys to hold the boards at the right angles and hold them to the molds and then we used half inch wide strapping tape and 1/4 inch dowels to hold the boards together. Put a dowel in the cove so you dont crush it and pull down tight. That way you can put a peice of tape and a dowel in any spot between the stations. We now have a pretty big ball of strapping tape, since we just put every peice of tape we used on the ball after we pulled it off.

Its Me · Post by **Its Me** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:58 pm

KenC wrote:
This is no samll task as you will need four per mold.
Why four? I used two.

I had a bottom jig and a top jig on each side of the mold. How did you hold your first strip on without a bracket/jig?

KenC · Post by **KenC** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:24 pm

I built the Endeavour, which uses a rub-rail at the sheer. So I used staples to hold the first strip in place, and the staple-holes are hidden under the rub-rail.

davidb54321 · Post by **davidb54321** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 9:39 am

I have decided to forge ahead WITHOUT staples. I have spent the last couple evenings getting the sheer planks in place and as fair as I can make them. I will have some strips to fill in on the ends as the Prospector has fairly high stems and I am not curving the sheer strips to hard at the stems.

It occurred to me this morning that I will have to be able to remove the jigs at the endmost molds while the canoe is on the molds to fit these filler strips, so I had to make some modifications to the jigs for these first few stations, so I can get them off without wrecking work already done. Does this make sense?

I was just wondering how others have done this part of the planking(above the sheerline) and if I should be alert for other things I haven't thought of yet.

Thanks, Dave

Post by **Patricks Dad** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:08 am

I think you are on the right track. You will need to remove the jigs below the sheer strip in order to add the additional short strips at the bow and stern. Once you get the hull striped, the jigs won't be serving much of a purpose (other than to hold the sheer strip against the forms).

Once you take them off you will need to ensure that the hull doesn't spring away from the forms. As you put the small strips in place you can watch for this. This wasn't a big problem for us but you should anticipate the need for devising some means to hold them against the forms (straps, glue, tape, small clamps, etc.) as you continue stripping down (up).

davidb54321 · Post by **davidb54321** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:27 am

Thanks, that is what I thought. I am only filling in at the first 2 or 3 stations at the stem end so I don't think the sheer will come out that much. It will still be held firm at the center two-thirds of the sheer.

Dave

Its Me · Post by **Its Me** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:56 pm

To get the seams nice and tight I began by using packing tape. Actually the cheap stuff from Harbor Frieght worked better than the Home Depot 3M "quality" tape. Someone had given me some inexpensive aligator clip webbing to lash down a Kayak. No ratchet just eight feet of webbibg with a spring loaded aligator clip one one end. It worked great. I had some rachet clamps and the were good but not as easy to use as the plain old strap with a clip.

Below is a picture and link to the type of webbing I am talking about. I wouldn't buy it from REI due to cost but I couldn't get a description of what I wanted fronm other siites

http://www.rei.com/online/store/Product ... REI_SEARCH