Hello all,
I live near Presque Isle bay on Lake Erie. There’s lots of marshy bay and lagoon type of water that is great for early spring fishing. I am in need of a small, stable, 2 passenger canoe to use until we get out the big boat and start chasing the walleye in Lake Erie.
I’ve done quite a bit of woodworking and building a strip canoe seems like the perfect solution.
Finding this incredible forum and reading all the exchanges between the many experienced builders has me excited about getting started.
I’ve purchased and read “Canoecraft” and I have connected to just about every link that anyone on this site has suggested but I still have a million questions.
My first is about obtaining cedar. We have a generous supply of 7/8 thick, rough sawn on one side, WRC in 16 foot lengths in 8” and 12” widths at a reasonable 2.10 a board ft. but it has a fair amount of knot holes. There would probably be a scarf or two on every strip.
I’m wondering if it is possible to build a decent looking boat this way. What is the best way to join them to be the least visible? I’m thinking a long diagonal scarf from the side would blend with the grain. My nearest source for clear WRC is “Cedar Roof Ontario” which is about 100 miles away. Here is a link: http://www.thinkcedar.com/contact.html
Would I be better of to strap a ladder on the top of the truck and make the trip?
Thanks for any help,
Jackster
Low cost WRC worth the work?
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Glen Smith
- Posts: 3719
- Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 9:08 am
- Location: Baie-St-Paul, Quebec, Canada
Up here in Quebec top quality Western Red Cedar costs about $8.00 per bd. ft.. I now use mostly locally harvested Eastern White Cedar which cost me between 1 and 2 dollars per bd.ft..
I have read of several builders buying cedar from the Big Box stores like Home Depot but they have to go through the entire lumber rack to find one or two acceptable boards.
Maybe you can find another supplier by contacting the distributors on this website: http://www.wrcla.org/aboutus/certifiedd ... ors.asp#pa. I don't think Weyerhauser will sell direct to you but they might be able to hook you up with a lumberyard in your area that buys from them.
As for joining shorter strips, some builders scarf the strips beforehand, some scarf the boards before even ripping the strips. Some people scarf as they go right on the building forms and several builders just use a butt joint. Any kind of joint requires close color and grain matching to be less noticeable.
Here is another link you could try:http://cedarone.findlocation.com/
I have read of several builders buying cedar from the Big Box stores like Home Depot but they have to go through the entire lumber rack to find one or two acceptable boards.
Maybe you can find another supplier by contacting the distributors on this website: http://www.wrcla.org/aboutus/certifiedd ... ors.asp#pa. I don't think Weyerhauser will sell direct to you but they might be able to hook you up with a lumberyard in your area that buys from them.
As for joining shorter strips, some builders scarf the strips beforehand, some scarf the boards before even ripping the strips. Some people scarf as they go right on the building forms and several builders just use a butt joint. Any kind of joint requires close color and grain matching to be less noticeable.
Here is another link you could try:http://cedarone.findlocation.com/
Check the yellow pages of "saw mills" and then for "specialty lumber yards".
The specialty lumber yards sometimes bring in a load of clear cedar a couple times a year.
When at the lumber yard ask them where they get there local domestic wood from.
They may be hesitant on giving that information to you, because once you find out, you'll go there from now on.
Ask for long lengths, for the gunwales.
With the increasing diffculty in finding long clear WRC and rising WRC costs, scarfing boards may become more prominant.
All the best,
Doug
The specialty lumber yards sometimes bring in a load of clear cedar a couple times a year.
When at the lumber yard ask them where they get there local domestic wood from.
They may be hesitant on giving that information to you, because once you find out, you'll go there from now on.
Ask for long lengths, for the gunwales.
With the increasing diffculty in finding long clear WRC and rising WRC costs, scarfing boards may become more prominant.
All the best,
Doug
"Some people hear the song in the quiet mist of a cold morning..... But for other people the song is loudest in the evening when they are sitting in front of a tent, basking in the camp fire's warmth. This is when I hear it loudest ...." BM
Jackster:
I have just finished stripping my prospector. I originally went to Cedar Roof Ontario to buy my cedar and couldn't find a single board in the entire pallet of lumber I went through. There were a lot of knots, the grain ran all over the place, the boards had splits, were cupped, were warped, etc, etc, etc. I ended up buying clear cedar decking from Turksta lumber. They have yards in Niagara Falls, Ridgeway, and Smithville. The boards were of excellant quality, but only 5/8" thick. I cut 7/8" strips, then cut these in half to yield 2 - 7/8" x 1/4" strips. A little extra work, but I stripped my canoe for under $250.
I have just finished stripping my prospector. I originally went to Cedar Roof Ontario to buy my cedar and couldn't find a single board in the entire pallet of lumber I went through. There were a lot of knots, the grain ran all over the place, the boards had splits, were cupped, were warped, etc, etc, etc. I ended up buying clear cedar decking from Turksta lumber. They have yards in Niagara Falls, Ridgeway, and Smithville. The boards were of excellant quality, but only 5/8" thick. I cut 7/8" strips, then cut these in half to yield 2 - 7/8" x 1/4" strips. A little extra work, but I stripped my canoe for under $250.
Bob
(Confucius Say... Asking a stupid question is better than repairing a stupid mistake.)
(Confucius Say... Asking a stupid question is better than repairing a stupid mistake.)
Thanks everyone, for all the information.
Glen, I was able to find a potential source thru one of your links that’s only 65 miles away. The rep said they had some nice quality, clear 5/4 x 6” x 16’ long decking for 18.71 apiece. Seems too good to be true. I’ll check it out this weekend.
Bob, thanks for saving me from a wasted trip to Cedar Roof Ontario. I had called there and the lady on the phone said they had some clear cedar.
It seems like finding good WRC might be one of the more daunting task in building a strip canoe!
Jackster
Glen, I was able to find a potential source thru one of your links that’s only 65 miles away. The rep said they had some nice quality, clear 5/4 x 6” x 16’ long decking for 18.71 apiece. Seems too good to be true. I’ll check it out this weekend.
Bob, thanks for saving me from a wasted trip to Cedar Roof Ontario. I had called there and the lady on the phone said they had some clear cedar.
It seems like finding good WRC might be one of the more daunting task in building a strip canoe!
Jackster
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Glen Smith
- Posts: 3719
- Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 9:08 am
- Location: Baie-St-Paul, Quebec, Canada
Hi Jackster, during one of my trips to Montreal I went to a lumberyard where I knew they usually had cedar in stock and I spoke to the young guy working in the lumberyard. I told him I needed it to build a kayak. Well, he had just started building a canoe so he took me to their "stash" of really nice Western Red Cedar. He even "underestimated" the board dimensions on the bill!
Maybe you could bring along a photo of a strip-built canoe or even your Canoecraft book to show them what you need the cedar for. It might stir up some interest on their behalf and they will understand why you want to select only the best boards.
Maybe you could bring along a photo of a strip-built canoe or even your Canoecraft book to show them what you need the cedar for. It might stir up some interest on their behalf and they will understand why you want to select only the best boards.
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Doug in Hamilton
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:20 am
WRC
Emerson Lumber in Hamilton stocks #1 clear WRC in 20 foot boards 6" x 7/8".
He also has excellent pricing, and will let you sort through the wood.
Hope this helps.
He also has excellent pricing, and will let you sort through the wood.
Hope this helps.
Scarfing cedar
It looks like you've been turned on to several excellent long, clear WRC sources in Ontario so you probably won't be scarfing. If the long boards don't materialize though, don't worry about scarfing. just cut a simple butt joint and it will be virtually invisisble if you watch the grain color on the adjacent board ends.
If you're in an area where local mills cut northern white cedar, you may be able to get clear boards there. It's preferable to red cedar in every way (it's even lighter), but the long clear old-growth stuff is long gone, made into wooden boats decades ago. Eight-foot stuff that's at a sawmill is cut to 100", so two pieces will cover your 16' length. Use butt joints and do three pieces on alternate strips, thereby staggering joints.
Now's the perfect time to locate clear white cedar at local sawmills, as this swamp species is only cut in the winter when the ground is frozen. The winter's cutting is usually milled into tongue and groove paneling early in the spring. Find a mill that's doing that and ask them to pull out clear boards for you as they run their paneling.
Good luck
Gary
Wisconsin
If you're in an area where local mills cut northern white cedar, you may be able to get clear boards there. It's preferable to red cedar in every way (it's even lighter), but the long clear old-growth stuff is long gone, made into wooden boats decades ago. Eight-foot stuff that's at a sawmill is cut to 100", so two pieces will cover your 16' length. Use butt joints and do three pieces on alternate strips, thereby staggering joints.
Now's the perfect time to locate clear white cedar at local sawmills, as this swamp species is only cut in the winter when the ground is frozen. The winter's cutting is usually milled into tongue and groove paneling early in the spring. Find a mill that's doing that and ask them to pull out clear boards for you as they run their paneling.
Good luck
Gary
Wisconsin
When people figure out what's really important in Life, there's gonna be a big shortage of canoes.