Elongating the stem pieces

[edmontonian]

Hi guys and gals,

I am finished strip 42 on a Prospector canoe. I have been working on this project since mid-March, going stapleless all the way.
This morning I showed my 13 year old daughter the craft and she mentioned something quite provocative. She said,"You know dad, it would sure look great if you could lengthen that walnut outer stem another 12 inches. Can you do that for this boat?" I told her that this time I probably can't, but for the next canoe, I will ensure a longer stem is included in the build.
With only 3 strips per side left until stripping up the stems is completed, I am doubtful this is possible at this point, but she has made me curious.

Putting it out there for any replies.

Sincerely,

edmontonian

[Glen Smith]

Has your daughter been looking at the Greenval website? THis link is to their info on stems: http://www.greenval.com/FAQstems.html

Check the subtitle: "stem length".







You have to make both stems longer, not just the outer stems. This would open up a long hole in the hull which is to be avoided.

[edmontonian]

Hello Glen,

My daughter has never visited a website on boat building or design. She may have come up with this longer stem idea all by herself! Perhaps this is the beginning of a father/daughter build next year if she is not too busy with "da boys".
I will try to convince her of how irresistible she would be to those boys if she was to build a canoe and bring them on a romantic lake tour. Wishful thinking!

Thanks for the input.

edmontonian

[canoeblderinmt]

Glen,
first, pardon my ignorance about stems, as you know, I don' t use them. If someone wanted to extend the stems to act as a kind of partial keel or for protection when beaching, say, could you build your stem in three pieces, with the extended piece to be added after the hull is closed in? A nice long scarf joint would provide plenty of strength and be nearly invisible if you matched the wood up for color.

[Glen Smith]

A partial keel would be sticking down lower than the hull shape itself, right? Sort of like a full keel but with a big chunk missing?

If that is the case, I think it would look very odd and wouldn't serve much purpose. It would also probably play tricks on the hydrodynamics of the hull.

However, if you have a rockered hull and want to have an outer stem that would protrude below the stem shape of the hull but then bevel into the hull profile a couple of forms back and not look like it was a builder's mistake, then yes, that could be done.

I would place a batten along the keel-line allowing it to be away from the hull a few forms behind the stem but never extending beyond the true keel-line and fair the outer stem to follow that line.

This is probably fairly muddy by now. I will see if I can find a picture to better illustrate what I am trying to say. Unless you tell me it is crystal clear already.

OK, if you go to my MSN photo site and look at this pic, it might be clearer: http://groups.msn.com/CanoesKayaks/oute ... hotoID=119

If you don't want a really long piece of outer stem acting as a keel but rather beaching protection, you can add a third layer or just make the outer stem thicker but you still have to bevel it down to form a fair line with the hull.

[pawistik]

When I first read the post I thought that you were asking about extending the outer stem out beyond the end of the canoe, creating a big flat thing that would stick out in front and behind beyond the bow and stern! Now I understand.

What would the reason be for extending the stems along the keel line?

If it's mostly aesthetics, then couldn't you insert a walnut strip at the keel line. Certainly others have done this or something similar. That could be incorporated pretty much any time I would think, even if the whole hull is stripped. Of course it mean cutting two very straight lines to create gap for the strip. Or, route a groove and insert a thin walnut piece in.

If it's done to create a keel, then it's probably harder.

Cheers,
Bryan

[Glen Smith]

I have never extended the stems that far inward. It is best to have the inner stem about 1" longer than the outer stem at the inboard end to prevent opening a hole in the hull when you mortise the outer stem in place over the inner stem.

On the Greenval site, they give no reason for the extended stems other than aesthetic appeal.

[edmontonian]

Hi gang,

Thanks for all the input. I will be leaving the stems normal size, per the plans in Canoecraft. However, I may be adding a thin walnut keel for the aesthetic appeal alone.

Glen, you mentioned keeping the inner stems about one inch longer inboard than the outer stems to avoid creating a hole in the hull when mortising them together.
Do you have pics of the inner/outer stem fitting process? They would be most appreciated.

edmontonian

[Glen Smith]

What I have available is posted on my MSN photosite. This is the link to the outer stem info: http://groups.msn.com/CanoesKayaks/outerstems.msnw The boat in the pics is a kayak but the same procedure applies to canoes.

[edmontonian]

Hello Glen,

Your lightning response is most appreciated. Thanks so much.

Before I proceed with the final strips covering the stems, I will mark one inch back from the ends of the inner stems and transfer these reference lines to each side of the hull, per Green Valley instructions.

Is mortise depth important or can I go all the way through since the inner stem backs the strips?

edmontonian

[Glen Smith]

The mortice should go down to the surface of the inner stem. This is your reference surface since the inner and outer stems were probably bent together at the same time. If the mortise is too shallow or too deep, the outer stem won't be a decent fit.